Amy: 🎶Hello and welcome to Season 2, Episode 12 of Expecto Patronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses.🎶

 I’m your host, Amy.

Carolyn: I’m Carolyn.

Sidney: And I’m Sidney and today we will be talking about greyhounds.

Amy: Not the buses, the dogs.

Sidney: The dogs. Yes.

Carolyn: The dog is on the side of the bus. We could be talking about the buses.

Sidney: I would actually love it if my Patronus was a bus. I am a huge fan of public transportation.

Amy: Funny story: when I was in college, I was taking a documentary filmmaking class and we were sitting there watching a documentary film about greyhound racing and the girl next to me turns to me and whispers, ‘I don’t get it. Why are they racing buses? [Laughter] And why is it a problem?’

Carolyn: Oh dear lord!

Amy: [Laughter] I was trying so hard to keep it together in that moment. I was like, ‘it’s a kind of dog.’

Carolyn: Was she watching the same documentary as you?

Amy: Yes!  Oh yes. Yep.

Carolyn: And this girl is responsible for making things people will watch.

Amy: Yes.

Carolyn: Oh dear lord.

Amy: I wonder where she ended up. [Laughter]

Sidney: Where are they now? 

Carolyn: I’m curious too now.

Amy: We did not stay in touch, so I couldn’t tell ya. [Laughter]

Sidney: Alright, let’s talk about greyhounds.

Amy: Anyway, tell us about greyhound, Sidney. 

Sidney: I would love to. The exact origin of the greyhound is uncertain. We’re not totally sure where they came from or when we got them. Evidence suggests it’s one of the oldest breeds of dog. Artifacts from ancient sites such as Çatalhöyük in Turkey, which dates back to 6000 BC, and rock art in Tassili, which dates to somewhere between 5000 and 2000 BC. 

Depictions in these ancient sites show some kind of dog that looks like a greyhound. And we’ve also found skeletal remains of a dog identified as something like a greyhound at Tell Brak in modern Syria and these remains dated to about 4000 years ago. 

Carolyn: Wow! 

Sidney: Very old dogs.

Amy: According to the American Kennel Club, greyhounds are considered independent, gentle, and noble.

Carolyn: The fact that they raced them sounds so weird to me.

Amy: I know.

Carolyn: It’s just mean. Okay, sorry.

Sidney: They’re very pretty dogs, but they do kind of look like a piece of paper fluttering in the wind. [M-hmm} [Laughter] A little bit more about the greyhound, let’s continue our discussion. It’s a breed of sight hound known for its exceptional speed and sleek muscular build.

It originates from the British Isles and from Europe, though as we’ve discussed, it dates back thousands of years to regions such as Turkey and Syria and even Egypt. It has been used throughout history for coursing, for racing, for hunting. Sometimes greyhounds are kept as show dogs or as pets.

Carolyn: Anybody else thinking best in show? [Laughter]

Sidney: Thinking what? 

Carolyn: Have you ever seen the movie best in show?

Sidney: No.

Amy: Yes.

Carolyn: Amy gets it.

Sidney: I live under a rock.

Carolyn:  That’s okay. 

Amy: It’s very funny. You should watch it. 

Carolyn: I do too when it comes to T.S. Eliot poems and I’m sure there will be bonus episodes on our Patreon watching my reaction to that.

Sidney: Anytime there’s poetry related to the animal I got us covered, [There you go] but that is pretty rare. You know, I was delighted to read about The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, when we talked about Albatrosses, but you know…

Carolyn: Well, and where you obscure poetry, I’m obscure movies. [Laughter]

Sidney: I’m sure there are poems about greyhounds but I don’t know them.

Amy: Probably.

Carolyn: Well, if you get time, you should check that movie out. It’s funny.

Sidney: Yeah. As we mentioned, greyhounds are sighthounds. Sighthound breeds are known for being pursuit predators. They pursue prey over long distances by sight rather than scent.

Amy: Yeah. Greyhounds are really known to catch sight of something and just go and not come back. So they usually don’t play fetch, which is kind of an interesting thing. They’ll chase down whatever you throw, but they don’t return with it. Whereas a retriever would also have that instinct to bring it back with them. 

Greyhounds are sweet-tempered and good family dogs, also good with children, according to the American Kennel Club. They are very high energy. They also come in 15 different colors that are recognized as standard for the breed. That includes blue, which is what they call gray, black, red, brindle, white, and a bunch of combinations of all of the above to get to those 15 colors.

Sidney: Wow, what a reasonable division of colors for this creature.

[Laughter]

Carolyn: Definitely.

Amy: Yes.

Sidney: Yes, male greyhounds typically are 28 to 30 inches tall, which is between 71 to 76 centimeters. They weigh between 60-88 pounds or 27 and 40 kilograms. Females are slightly smaller than the males. 

Greyhounds also have a smooth short coat and a long tail, S-shaped body with a deep chest and long powerful legs. They are built for speed. They are coiled energy. Pure muscle. Very, very slim and sleek. As such, they can reach speeds exceeding 40 miles per hour, which is 64 kilometers per hour. These boys are fast. 

Amy: That’s crazy.

Sidney: Greyhounds have a reputation as racing dogs. In the 1900s, greyhound racing was very, very popular across the world. Race tracks opened for greyhounds in 1926 and became very popular in America and in Great Britain, including Ireland, and also Australia.  And it was very very popular for a while but it seems to have fallen out of favor more recently.

Amy: Yeah, I mean, we know that it’s pretty controversial, the mistreatment of the dogs and everything. Actually, in the US, greyhound racing is illegal in 41 of the 50 states. So yeah, it looks like it is still legal in the UK, New Zealand, Australia, China, and Mexico.

Carolyn: Well, getting into folklore a little bit, the history of greyhounds traces back thousands of years with evidence of their existence in ancient civilizations, as we’ve previously discussed. 

In Egypt, they were highly regarded, used for hunting and as companions. The birth of such a hound was considered of great importance, second only to the birth of a son. [Laughter] When a pet hound died, the entire family would go into mourning. The favorite hounds of the upper class were mummified and buried with their owners. 

The walls of Egyptian tombs were often decorated with images of their hounds. An Egyptian tomb painting from 2200 BC portrays dogs that look very much like the modern greyhound. Among pharaohs known to own greyhound type dogs are Tutankhamen, Amenhotep II, Thutmose III, Queen Hatshepsut, and Cleopatra VII.

Sidney: Here’s a fun fact. Greyhound is the only dog breed that’s mentioned by name in the Bible. This is specifically the King James translation, which is the older English translation. It comes from Proverbs 30, verses 29 through 31, which say in the King James translation:

“There be three things which do well, yea, which are comely and going, Lion, which is strongest among beasts, and turneth not away from any, a greyhound, a he-goat also.”

This I do want to note is likely not a great translation because the King James translation is a little bit slapdash in my opinion. It’s also again the oldest standard English translation. 

More modern translations do not say this. They do not mention the greyhound. Which means it’s probably not very accurate. So a more modern translation is the new international version which says in these same verses:

‘There are three things that are stately in their stride. Four that move with stately bearing. A lion, mighty among beasts who retreats before nothing, a strutting rooster, a he-goat, and a king secure against revolt.” 

So the more accurate, more modern translation there is actually talking about a rooster. Not a greyhound.

Amy: Well that is a big difference. [Laughter]

Carolyn: I was gonna say that’s a big swing in animal.

Sidney: Yes, I have strong opinions about the King James Translation , but I guess generally they kind of did their best for the time. Another classic literature reference to the greyhound would be in the Odyssey written by the poet or poets that we know as Homer in 800 BC. 

When the hero Odysseus is away from home for 20 years, he finally returns home and the only being there to recognize him, the second that he arrived is his hound Argus. Who is described in terms that mark him clearly as a sighthound, might have been an ancient form of a greyhound. 

Another interesting fact from mythology and history was that the Greek gods were often portrayed with greyhounds. A hound often accompanies Hecate, the goddess of wealth. The protector of the hunt, who is the god Pollux, is also depicted with hounds.

[Transcriber note: Hecate is the goddess of witchcraft, moon, crossroads, and night. Tyche is the goddess of wealth.] 

Carolyn: I wonder what kind of dog Anubis is. That might not be connected at all. Isn’t he the one with the dog head in ancient Egypt?

Sidney: So I looked this up actually and it’s possible. Generally most people think that Anubis, who is one of the Egyptian gods, is a jackal rather than canine. Not necessarily a dog breed of any sort, but a jackal. But when it is identified as a canine several different breeds come into the discussion here one is the pharaoh hound, one is the Doberman Pincher, and one is a greyhound. 

Carolyn: Okay. I always thought the head kind of looked the same.

Amy: Yeah, it’s similar.

Sidney: It might be.

Amy: Alright, a little bit of symbolism here with the greyhound. Greyhounds often represent grace, elegance, and speed, which obviously. They can also symbolize vitality and intuition. And due to a history of being companions to aristocrats and rulers, greyhounds are sometimes seen to symbolize royalty and leadership. 

The appearance of a greyhound can have both positive and negative meanings. On the positive side, they could signify a period of swift progress, heightened intuition, and strong focus. It can also mean that there’s a protective energy around you supporting you. 

On the negative side, the appearance of a greyhound could signify restlessness and a lack of direction, and could also be a warning to slow down and be less impulsive.

Carolyn: Heightened intuition and strong focus and lack of direction, impulsive. Weird combination.

Amy: Yeah, you can see though where both of those come from, which is interesting because like… 

Carolyn: I mean they’re a high energy dog.

Amy: Obviously, High energy, A sighthound is very focused [Yes] in on what it’s hunting.

Sidney: Very high strung.

Amy: M-hmm, but then you can also see where the high energy could be like, restlessness and two sides. All right, so for our Who’s Patronus is it Anyway?

[🎶Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out on Whose Patronus is it Anyway?🎶]

Amy: I had an idea. I kind of like this for Madame Maxime. And this may be my hear me out moment. [Laughter] As Carolyn would say.

Carolyn: I don’t know.  After I read your description, I couldn’t come up with a better one, so.

Amy: Oh great, excellent. So maybe it’s not as far-fetched as I thought. But yeah, mean, Madame Maxime, she gives off this regal air of nobility and grace. And I think both she and the greyhound embody that kind of noble air. 

She’s obviously a leader. She leads her school. She dives in with the fight with The Order, all of that. So she’s got that leadership side as well. She’s very smart and a force to be reckoned with. I feel she also fits in with the intuition and focus. 

And I just, I also really like the juxtaposition of half-giant Madame Maxime and the greyhound that’s got this small frame and the speed. And I feel like Patronuses really represent the secret self as we discussed back in season one. And I think the greyhound is a really good combination of what we see outwardly and inwardly with Madame Maxime. 

So that is my argument.

Sidney: That’s very interesting. I would never have come up with that on my own, but I do see where you’re coming from.

Carolyn: Yeah, once I read it I was like, ‘I don’t have a better suggestion than this,’ to be honest. So I completely agree with it. 

Our other host, Liz, had a suggestion. Princess Diana, if she were a witch, her Patronus would be a greyhound. She has no other context for this. [Laughter] So that is all I got.

Sidney: I’m fascinated.

Amy: It just says ‘Hear Liz out’.

Carolyn: So that is a real hear us out, because I got nothing else to throw in here. Don’t hate it…

Sidney: I wish she had been on this episode to explain herself [I know!] because that is quite a hear me out. I guess I sort of, again, see where it’s coming from, but I do wish that she would explain herself for this.

Amy: It’s such a random thought to pop into your head I mean, [By the argument of all that royalty] I get it. Yeah.

Sidney: Regality and a lot of recklessness, tension. Princess Diana was known for latching onto causes and just sort of going at them with everything she had. So I guess, sure. {Yeah] We usually don’t do real-life historical figures for this. [Laughter]

Carolyn: There’s a first time for everything!  

Sidney: We’re usually zeroed in on Harry Potter characters. Yes.

Carolyn: Liz put the hear us out into this episode so I had to just…

Amy: She sure did.

Carolyn:  I don’t know. I mean I totally buy it, if Diana were a witch. Sure. I got no other thoughts.

Amy: As Liz put at the end of that sentence, that is all.

Carolyn: That is all. 

Sidney: That’s all. 

Carolyn: So, join us next week when we talk about the black and white cat. It should be a very interesting topic. 

Sidney: We’ll have lots of thoughts. 

Carolyn:  I’m sure we will have many a thought.

Amy: Sidney especially. [Laughter]

Carolyn: You can find us on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram at expectopodtronum. We are on Twitter at expectopod. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com/expectopodtronum. We try to do bloopers, extra episodes. We have a wall..do we have wallpapers? I feel like we have stuff like that. If not already coming.

And we all, of course, would love to hear from you. So please send us a Patronus to any of our social media outlets or email us directly at expectopodtronum@gmail.com. And of course, reviews help the show get seen. Please leave a review. It helps us get discovered by new people all the time.

Amy: Alright, until next week, I’m Amy.

Carolyn: I’m Carolyn.

Sidney: And I’m Sydney and Remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the dementors away.

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