Amy: 🎶Hello, and welcome to Season 2, Episode 11 of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. 🎶

I’m your host, Amy.

Carolyn: I’m Carolyn.

Sidney: I’m Sidney and today we will be talking about ospreys.

Carolyn: I know nothing about these birds.

[Laughter]

Amy: They’re pretty cool.

Carolyn: I know a lot of symbolism now. I did that research. That’s my knowledge of them.

Sidney: We’re going to learn about them together. [Yay!] Amy, why don’t you tell us a little bit about the osprey.

Amy: Okay, the name osprey made its first appearance around 1460 via the medieval Latin phrase for bird of prey, avis prede. Some wordsmiths trace the name even further back to the Latin for bonebreaker, ossifragus.

Sidney: That’s [Very ominous] actually a really cool name.  

Carolyn: Why did they change it from that!?

[Laughter]

Sidney: That’s hardcore. I love it, actually.

Amy: Bonebreakers, dun dun dunnnn. [Laughter]

Carolyn: Sounds like a dragon in How to Train Your Dragon.

Sidney: Yes! Yes it does. Great movie by the way. Movies.

Carolyn: I love those movies.

Amy: So the osprey belongs to the family Pandionidae and is the sole species in its genus. There are several subspecies including the eastern osprey Pandion Haliaetus Cristatus which is found in Oceania including Australia, Indonesia, New Guinea, and the Philippines. Ospreys are large raptors which we could have figured out from the bone breaker name I’m sure.

Sidney: Bird of prey.

Carolyn: Just a little bit. 

Amy: Yeah, yeah. These birds measure over 21 to 23 inches or 54 to 58 centimeters in length with a wing span of up to 59 to 71 inches or 150 to 180 centimeters. They can weigh between 49 and 70 ounces or 1.4 to 2 kilograms. So yeah, they’re definitely [Not tiny birds] bird of prey size. 

Sidney: Big birds.

Carolyn: Not jaunty little fellows. 

Sidney: Bonebreaker.

Carolyn: Bonebreaker.

Sidney: I’m hung up on how cool that name is.

Amy: It’s really cool. [Laughter] 

Carolyn: That’s what I’m going to call it from now on.

Amy: So ospreys, they’re coloring. They’re brown above and white below. And overall, they’re actually quite a bit whiter than most raptors. From below, the wings are mostly white with a prominent dark patch at the wrists. The head is white with a broad brown stripe through the eye. And juveniles have white spots on the back and buffy shading on the breast.

Sidney: Yeah, I love this coloring because it’s really practical for a bird like this. If you’re looking at them from above, they’re going to blend in with the ground and if you’re looking at them from below while they’re flying they’re going to blend in with the sky.

Amy: Yeah, yeah. Sometimes when you see them at the right angle, it’s really weird because you have to double take because you might think it’s a bald eagle at first when you see the white because they do have some white on their head. Yeah, then once you get them at another angle, it becomes pretty obvious they’re not.

Sidney: Yeah, the head is very different. It’s got that crest top. The feathered crest looks very majestic. [Yes] So a little bit more about the osprey. They are unique among North American raptors for their diet of live fish and their ability to dive into water to catch them. 

They’re often seen soaring over shorelines, patrolling waterways or perched on their large nests. Their white heads and distinctive flight profile make them easily recognizable. That’s what we were talking about a minute ago. 

If you can see their whole head, then it’s very clear this is an osprey. It’s a lot harder to mix them up. If you just see the body or something you might think it’s an eagle. But once you see the head you can recognize it very easily.

Amy: Yeah, has anybody else seen them dive into the water to get fish? 

Carolyn: No.

Amy: Awww.

Sidney: I’ve seen it on on video.

Amy: Yeah, it’s so cool because they like, they’ll be circling above and then when they go to dive, they tuck their wings. So they nose dive and then they hit the water and then they come up and then they go away and they shake the fish. It’s really weird.

Carolyn: Make sure it’s dead. 

Amy: It’s pretty cool.

[Laughter]

Carolyn: I was looking at the picture at the beginning of the doc and I realized this kind of gives me very augury vibes. [Hmm!] Just the look of this bird. It reminds me…

Sidney: Could be an inspiration.

Carolyn: Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if this bird was one of the inspirations for how they designed the augury in the movie.

Sidney: Let’s talk about their nests. [Laughter]

Amy: Okay.

Carolyn: Yeah, sounds good.

Sidney: Okay, these birds build large nests out of whatever sticks they can scavenge. They build their nests in open areas often on poles or on channel markers or at the tops of dead trees. They almost always build their nest near water because they’re fishing birds. 

Their nests are pretty conspicuous given how big they are and how they have a tendency to build them out in the open. They are found in a variety of habitats including urban and suburban areas. 

Another fun fact about ospreys is that they have very long migrations. One individual is tracked flying 2,700 which is a little over 4,300 kilometers from Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts to French Guinea and it did last 13 days. 

Moving on to the next bullet point. [Laughter] Osprey population has declined significantly in the mid-20th century due to pesticide use, which poisoned the birds and thinned their eggshells. After the ban of these pesticides, the population has grown, it’s recovering, and now the global breeding population is estimated at 1.2 million ospreys. 

Once again, humans have ruined a lot of things, but we do have the opportunity to get better, fix what we have broken. [Laughter] The oldest known osprey was at least 25 years and two months old and it lived in Virginia. It was banded in 1973 and found again in 1998. 

Amy: Wow. That’s pretty cool.

Sidney: Pretty cool. So there’s been ospreys who have lived as long as I have lived at this point. [Laughter] That’s cool.

Amy: Yeah, it’s funny talking about their nests and how obvious they are. It really truly is like they could not pick more obvious places to build their nests. [Yes] I go canoeing in the Adirondacks a lot and like I’ll be paddling along and they’ll pick the tallest tree on one of the islands right at the point of the island and there’s the big nest at the top and it’s like, ’there it is.’ [Laughter]

Sidney: Yes, they are very conspicuous, and they usually pick trees and branches without a lot of leaves on them. They pick a lot of dead trees. Real tall, scrawny ones without any cover because I guess when you’re that big and intimidating there’s not a lot that can threaten you, you know any…

Carolyn: I was gonna say, their name is bonebreaker. I don’t think they’re worried. [Laughter]

Sidney: Yeah. Any predators [True] that could come after them, there aren’t that many sky predators bigger than ospreys and ground predators wouldn’t be able to reach their nests. Even though they’re very obvious you can’t necessarily get up there.

Amy: Yup. That’s true.

Sidney: All right. Tell us more about the osprey, Carolyn.

Carolyn: Well, I looked up the symbolism, so I have a few things. Bonebreakers, because that’s what they’re going to be called from now on. 

Sidney: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Carolyn: Which is kind of odd because they are considered a symbol of harmony and peace of mind. [Laughter]

Sidney: Oh no. 

Amy: Okay then.

Carolyn: They are known for showing you the quickest route to achieving your goals or the goal, these goals of harmony and peace of mind.

Sidney: I guess there’s something to be said for achieving peace of mind by force. [Laughter]

Carolyn: That is an option. It is an option. Ospreys are considered a master of wind and wave. They are powerful and fast, and the bird is one that can reach its goal even when blinded by sun or obstacles. This symbolism is mirrored as a sign of goal orientation and blind faith in one’s ability to achieve greatness.

Sidney: Yeah, that’s a lot like we’re talking about the nesting. There’s a lot of faith and just building your nest out in the open, very visible and having faith [Yup] that you’re going to be fine.

Carolyn: Yeah. A lot of the symbolism that I found said that because they are also a member of the hawk family, these bonebreakers share symbolism with  hawks. Including keen sightedness, prowess, abundance, and victory. The exquisite coloring, which I think we have all agreed with, represents a yin and yang kind of harmony. Balance in all things. 

We talked about their migration patterns. They migrate for winter and return for spring. So many cultures consider it a sign of good luck when you see them coming back. Nesting pairs are seen as particularly lucky for those who see them. 

The article was talking about symbolism, but it also mentioned that osprey mate for life. I cannot verify that fact. So I don’t know. I think that’s why nesting pairs are seen as lucky.  And then fishermen also consider seeing ospreys as a sign of a larger catch on the horizon. 

Then in terms of mythology Roman mythology had a lot of it was kind of the only one that really had a lot that at least according to the article I found. Pliny the Elder wrote about osprey parents and how they would have their young fly into the sun as a test and failure resulted in death. 

I want to know how Pliny the Elder knew that this is what osprey parents were doing to their children personally, I mean I put a big eye roll in the doc because I was like ‘I don’t know about this one, but it was something that was mentioned.’

Sidney: Sounds like he heard the story of Icarus and was like, ‘wow, that’s really cool. I bet birds do that too.’

Carolyn: That’s kind of what, I was like ‘this doesn’t really line up’ but it was in there as a main fact. 

Sidney: It sounds kind of made up.

Carolyn: It does sound made up. I did not get a chance to independently verify. If a listener wants to point us in the right direction I will appreciate the correction. [Laughter]

Amy: Basically, I think Pliny was just full of [censored].

[Laughter]

Carolyn: Pretty much. I mean, like I said, I literally wrote eye roll into the doc [Yes] because I was like, ‘really?’ 

Sidney: Yeah. Can confirm. 

Carolyn: I’m not going to try and confirm that. But Romans did believe that ospreys had a mesmerizing effect that would cause fish to surrender to their fate.

Sidney: That’s also very funny because the leap of logic to say they can hypnotize fish is [Yeah] much greater than to say they’re really talented hunters who kill the fish or [I think this] to shake it to death [Yeah]. Break their bones. 

Carolyn: I think  this was more of a mythology thing, like they are such good hunters, they are clearly mesmerizing them. But again, this was the mythology section [Yeah] of the symbolism doc.

Sidney: They can’t just be that good. 

Carolyn: No, can’t.

Sidney: They’ve got some kind of talent.

Amy: There’s got to be an explanation.

Carolyn: Yeah, no, no, there’s got to be an explanation for it. The one that I did think was a pretty interesting connection and kind of made sense to me just because of what we do know or what is typically known about this particular god. 

Osprey were associated with the god Mercury or in Greek Hermes, and given that he’s a god known for speed and messenger of the gods, I thought that was an interesting connection. I thought they were kind of just trying to tie in a spirit animal for him. I don’t know.  

And then Romans also considered them an emblem for communication, both creative and divine. So I think that tied in with the Mercury and Hermes messenger kind of things.

Sidney: I mean, to be fair if I had never seen an osprey before and then I saw it in person, I would probably think it was some kind of divine messenger also. They are very impressive birds. 

Carolyn: I mean, we are talking mythology at this point, [Yeah] so I’ll give them a little bit of credit with the exception of Pliny the Elder’s comments because that seemed weird. 

[Laughter]

Ospreys are seen to come at times of tipping points. So they could be seen as a sign of greatness coming, whether you’re ready for it or not. Kind of gave me a hero’s journey vibes a little bit, the reluctant hero with greatness thrust upon them.

Seeing an osprey could also be trying to tell you that you need to focus more or that you should be kind of reflecting on things like your heart’s desire, whether you’re really moving towards your goals or not. And that they’re kind of there to teach you how to move outward and upward towards your goals. Those were the big things on symbolism.

Sidney: Interesting. 

Amy: Cool. 

Sidney: They are very impressive birds and I can see why they’re be a lot of thoughts about what they might mean.

Amy: Alright, I think it’s time for Who’s Patronus is it Anyway?

[🎶Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out on Whose Patronus is it Anyway?🎶]

Carolyn: Does anybody have any thoughts? 

Sidney: No.

Amy: I could not think of anything.

Sidney: You go ahead.

Carolyn: Alright, I got two and one is a definite no way because we know his Patronus. But there was some of that symbolism about ospreys coming at tipping points and a sign of greatness whether you’re ready for it or not, so I did kind of read some Harry vibes from it. 

Again not necessarily, I mean we know he’s a stag. We know he’s got his father’s Patronus, but would this be one, the symbolism got me thinking. Would this be one if he were to have a different animal? 

If maybe his father hadn’t [M-hmm] his parents hadn’t died and, then he wouldn’t be thrust into greatness so we’ve got other issues there, but it did make me wonder whether this could apply given some of the symbolism. 

If I were to pick someone to have the osprey other than Harry, the other one I think of is Neville. The osprey symbolizes greatness or that possibility to achieve it and Neville is the other half of the prophecy. When the prophecy, that was Dumbledore’s whole thing, it could have applied to two of you [Right] and Voldemort picked you. 

If it hadn’t been Harry it would have been him. And he’s the one who does defeat Nagini, proving his bravery and Gryffindor-ness a little bit. Which is the two, you know, that’s the second time. 

I would say the first time is probably in the first book when he’s, the reason he got that extra ten points was he stood up to his friends and had that kind of…

These are like little nuggets of bravery and greatness kind of stuck throughout the books for him. [M-hmm] Like there’s potential there even though he always feels like a squib and feels like the odd one out.

I feel the osprey would be a good Patronus for him in that respect. Because it’s kind of saying you have more potential than you realize. You could be great. You probably are greater than you realize, that kind of thing So, I don’t know that was the other one that I thought of.

Amy: Yeah.

Sidney: Yeah. I also have a suggestion. So this was inspired by the discussions of ospreys being a symbol of messages from the divine. Sort of that divine messenger the Hermes connection. I think it could work for Professor Trelawny.

Carolyn: Ohhhhh. 

Sidney: Because she’s not necessarily a super impressive person who’s really skilled and talented, but when she is locked in, she’s locked in. And she actually is the real deal, has the actual talent, the actual prophecy. And so in those moments where she is actually a Seer, I think that this would be a really great Patronus for her.

Carolyn: She does have two accurate predictions. [Laughter]

Sidney: Yeah, 

Carolyn: Two whole ones.

Sidney: I mean she makes, yeah, she makes the prophecy about Harry and Voldemort and the prophecy about Voldemort’s resurrection. [M-hmm] And there might be more that we don’t really know of. 

But while she also makes several predictions throughout the school years, throughout the classes that people have pointed out were somewhat accurate. She pointed out that was going to die over and over again. She kept predicting the deaths of Hogwarts students. 

She said at the Christmas dinner, and most of those students that died in the Battle of Hogwarts. At the Christmas dinner she said when 13 people sit down at the table, the first one to stand up will be the first. to die. And that is true of the people sitting around that table at that time. 

Carolyn, don’t look like you don’t remember this?

Carolyn: I’m trying to remember who got up first.

Sidney: I think it was Dumbledore, but I could be wrong. 

Carolyn: Oh okay. 

Sidney: I might need to fact check that. I’m not going to, we’re just going to skip it.

Carolyn: Yeah, we’re gonna, we don’t need to worry about that. 

Sidney: I was being vague on purpose. [Laughter]

Carolyn:  I was trying to remember, because I remembered that, but I didn’t remember who got up first. And I remembered that the twins were at that table too, and I was trying to remember if it was Fred and George.

Amy: Why did I think it was a tie between Harry and Ron standing up?

Carolyn: I feel like a lot of her predictions were total hooey, but those two were the right ones. 

Sidney: A lot of them were, but some of them weren’t. 

Amy: Was this Order? 

Sidney: No, I think it was… 

Carolyn: Prisoner.

Amy: It was Prisoner. 

Sidney: Yes. 

Carolyn: Yeah. That I remember. I remember which book it was. Do I remember who got up first? No. [Laughter]

Sidney: I think it was Dumbledore.

Amy: Oh it was Dumbledore.

Sidney: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Okay, so all of that’s a wash. 

Amy: However, unbeknownst to the others, Ron’s pet rat Scabbers, [Yeah] who is actually Peter Pettigrew. [She won’t sit down] Meaning there were 13 diners present.

Sidney: Yeah, she won’t sit down because [Yeah] she says there’s 12 people at the table. I’ll be the 13th and that means whoever gets up first will be the first to die. But she doesn’t know that Pettigrew is also at the table. So there are already 13 people sitting down. 

Carolyn: So there’s already 13 there. 

Sidney: Yeah. And then the first one to stand up is Dumbledore. So that’s an accurate prediction. She makes tons of accurate predictions actually, just scattered throughout and smaller, and they just seem like such nonsense. [Laughter]

Carolyn: I’m gonna take a Hermione and McGonagall approach this and go, she’s full of it, but whatever. [Laughter]

Sidney: Even a broken clock is right twice a day. [Laughter]

Carolyn: It still works that an osprey could be her Patronus. [Yeah] I’m not arguing that.

Amy: So for this Whose Patronus is it Anyway?, we’ve now named three of the four people involved in the prophecy. 

Carolyn: Yep.

Sidney: Ohhh…You’re right. 

Amy: Voldemort? Does this work for Voldemort too?

Sidney: No. [Laughter]

Carolyn: How about Snape? He did hear the prophecy. 

Amy: Darn.

Sidney: He would be full of it enough to think that he is a messenger from the gods or something, but I don’t think he deserves that. [Laughter]

Carolyn: I feel Dumbledore’s a bit arrogant like that too though and he was definitely [Yeah] involved in the prophecy. Do we want to try making a connection there?

[Laughter]

Sidney: No, he’s gotta be special. He’s a special little boy. He wants like a phoenix, ya know? He’s got to be a special little boy.

Amy:  He needs a special bird. Anyway, that wraps up this episode on the osprey. Join us next week when we talk about the Greyhound. 

And in the meantime, also find us on social media. You can find us over on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram at expectopodtronum. On Twitter at expectopod. And you can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com/expectopodtronum.

We’d love to hear from you, so send a Patronus to any of our social media outlets or email us at expectopodtronum@gmail.com. And definitely leave us a review if you’ve been enjoying the show. That helps us gain a little bit more attraction and get some more views. 

Until next time, I’m Amy. 

Carolyn:  I’m Carolyn.

Sidney: And I’m Sidney and remember a piece of chocolate a day will keep the dementors away.

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