Stephanie: 🎶 Hello, and welcome to Season 2, Episode 4 of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses.🎶

I’m your host Stephanie! 

Amy: I’m Amy.

Carolyn: And I’m Carolyn, and today we are talking about the robin.

Amy: Yay, another cute little guy. 

Stephanie: Birb! 

Amy: I’m on all the cute ones.

Carolyn: Two tiny ones in a row.

Amy: Yeah, a little bit about the robin. In this situation, American Robins and European Robins are quite different. If you are American like us and thought of our robin, the picture you have in your mind is not what these are.

Because we’re assuming with where Harry Potter is based it is probably the European Robin that is being referred to on this list of Patronus forms and they look very different. [They do] So, glad I googled that because I had no idea. I just thought a robin’s a robin

Carolyn: You mean they don’t all look the same?

Stephanie: I know I put an American Robin in his doc originally because I didn’t know.

[Laughter]

Carolyn: It’s actually kind of cuter, to be honest.

Amy: It is. It’s fluffier.

Carolyn: Kind of like a little Snidget.

[Laughter]

Amy: And actually the European one reminds me more of a bluebird. It does have the orange on it but it’s got that shape of a bluebird. I don’t know. I’m not a bird person so I don’t know technically.

Carolyn: My brain immediately went Blue Jay which is very much the wrong animal. 

[Laughter] 

Stephanie: Mine too! 

Carolyn: And Blue Jays are huge. I actually saw one the other day.

Amy: Not a blue jay.

Carolyn: Not a blue jay, a little blue bird. [Laughter] You know, like all the Disney movies.

Amy: According to allaboutbirds.org, the American Robins and European Robins aren’t even closely related, but they’re both called robins. Just to make life confusing. 

Carolyn: Let’s add to the problem..

Amy: The European Robin is from the old world flycatcher family and the American Robin is a thrush. The European Robin looks fluffier than the American Robin. It’s also smaller. It’s more of a grayish color with an orange face and upper breast. 

Whereas the American Robin has a gray slash black head and a full orange breast all the way down its front. The juvenile European Robin is a buff color with some spotting and no orange.

Carolyn: Is it bad that I heard buff and immediately thought muscle guy on the beach?

[Laughter]

Amy: Yes, they come out of their eggs and they’re like, “let’s go”. [Laughter] 

Interestingly, the European Robin has been introduced to America several different times, but it’s never resulted in a self-sustaining population. {Hmm] So they cannot be found in the wild in the US.

Stephanie: They just fly around like, ‘mmm, no thanks.’

Amy: Nah, I’m going back across the ocean.

[Laughter]

Carolyn: It’s probably a good thing anyway because really we shouldn’t be introducing new wild populous to other established ones. Probably not a good thing.

Amy: Yeah. According to eBirds.org, these little guys hop perkily on the ground and they’re found in a variety of wooded habitats, including forests, hedges, farmland, and gardens, usually somewhere near cover.

Stephanie: It’s giving me jaunty little fellows flashbacks

[Laughter]

Amy: Yes! Hops perkily!

Carolyn: Ya know what? We’re gonna have a series of coloring pages and the little ones are all going to say “It’s a jaunty little fellow!”

Amy: Can we? Yeah, we need to have them in little top hats and stuff [Yup] and with the little  walking sticks. 

Carolyn: I think so.

Stephanie: With nice little bow ties

Amy: Perkily hops along.

Carolyn: All the little ones are going to be jaunty little fellows now. It is going to be somewhere on the graphic. . 

Amy: It has been decided. [Laughter] We could do it by size and like a pie chart and categorize them like these are the jaunty little fellows. [This is…] These are the scary ones. 

Carolyn: This is the graphic I need. The baseline is Jack Russell. What was it? Jack Russell? That’s the one. [I think] That was the first one. 

Amy: Yeah.

Carolyn: It was Jack Russell. Any bigger than that, it’s not a jaunty little fellow. Any smaller and we just watch them be jaunty little fellows. 

[Laughter]

Stephanie: Not boop-able. Boopable. 

Amy: Boopable. 

[Laughter]

Amy: Yeah. Oh, boy. Robins and their nesting practices. They nest in cavities like stumps, hollow trees, roots, and rock crevices in the corner of building structures. Places where they can kind of tuck themselves in and have some shelter. 

They lay four to seven eggs at a time. The incubation period is 12 to 21 days and nesting period is 10 to 18 days. And the eggs are white with reddish brown markings.

Stephanie: It’s amazing to me that after maybe two to three months, it’s like, ‘nope, get out on your own.’

Amy: Robins eat primarily insects and things that they can find in the ground. They feed by hopping to the ground from low perches and plucking whatever prey they find from the ground and flying away to eat it. 

They are known to follow around farmers or larger birds to pick grubs and insects out of the dirt that they turned up so they don’t have to dig for it and it freshly gets turned up.

Stephanie: Oh, they are lazy little birds. 

Amy: They’re resourceful.

Carolyn: I like it a lot.

Amy: Their song incorporates a variety of warbles and trills and calls can sometimes incorporate a ticking noise or a high alarm sound depending on the situation.

Stephanie: I’m sure that is much prettier than that description warrants, but since looking up auditory things last season, I am very hesitant to look things up.

Amy: Yeah.

Carolyn: I just think of the robins here. I am going to think of what robins sound like here and not worry about it. 

Amy: I’m sure it’s the same. 

Carolyn: I can’t go there! 

Stephanie: Based on everything that Amy told us, robin’s personalities tend to be friendly and trusting of humans, but territorial when it comes to other robins. They’re also courageous and adaptive, which you can definitely see by making friends with the farmer and eating the grubs that way. 

Moving on to some folklore, myths, and our culture section. In British culture, robins are associated with good luck, hope, and the spirits of loved ones. So their appearance is often seen as a positive sign. That kind of makes me think back to, at least for my family, cardinals.

Carolyn: Yeah! I was gonna say the same thing. I was waiting. 

Stephanie: My family is exactly the same. Every time I see a cardinal I think it’s one of my grandparents.

Carolyn: Yep, nope, that’s us too. Cardinals. That’s my family too. I actually have a tattoo of one for my grandfather.

Stephanie: They are seen as messengers carrying spiritual guidance from loved ones who’ve passed on. In many cultures, their appearance is believed to signify that someone is watching over you. The message of protection can bring reassurance and comfort, especially in a time where you may be feeling alone and uncertain. 

In Christianity, robins tend to be associated with Christ’s compassion and sacrifice. It is said that the red on the breast is said to represent the Blood of Christ. Which would symbolize faith, love, and divine guidance. In this context, it would be a reminder to keep your heart open to spirituality and spiritual growth. Which as someone who grew up in the Christian faith, I did not know.

In Native American traditions, some of the cultures see robins as messengers of change and renewal. They symbolize a fresh start and encourage people to embrace new beginnings and transformations. The song of a robin to Native American traditions is believed to carry wisdom and guidance from the spirit world, helping to navigate life’s challenges. 

I feel this may be, because it is Native American tradition, more of the American Robin that we’re talking about in this sense. However [Yeah] , I do feel it does kind of apply [Similar]  as well with the similarities and shows you while they may not look too much alike. I feel overall robins are viewed relatively similarly.

Carolyn: That might be why they get associated with each other even being such different breeds.

Amy: Yeah.

Stephanie: Moving back across the sea in Celtic mythology, they believe that robins are also linked to the spiritual realm and are considered guides between this world and the next. They are messengers from the loved ones who have passed on offering protection and reassurance again, and their presence ought to bring comfort and connection during times of loss and transition. 

In the Feng Shui culture of China, the robins are believed to attract prosperity and good fortune. They are symbols of joy and positivity. They bring an energetic shift to homes and spaces that they visit, and their presence is thought to uplift the spirit and create a harmonious environment. Harmony all around. 

And then lastly, in Greek mythology, robins are associated with the Greek god Zeus. It was believed that Zeus transformed himself into a robin to protect his loved ones, symbolizing the bird’s role as a guardian and protector. In this culture, it is viewed as a creature that brings divine guidance and safety.

Carolyn: Not the bird I would have associated with Zeus.

Stephanie: No, usually it’s the eagle. 

Carolyn: That’s what I was thinking. 

Stephanie: This is also, as someone who’s really into Greek mythology and the Greek culture and their ways of worship, robin threw me off. 

Carolyn: Yeah. That throws me off just thinking about it.

Amy: Interesting.

Carolyn: All right, well. Let’s go into symbolism here a little bit. It is believed that when a robin visits you outside, so landing on a sidewalk near you or or happening to be nearby, it means good luck is coming your way. We already talked about this before, but representing a loved one and that they’re watching over you. 

There are a couple of superstitions that tie into the robin in terms of the symbolism too I thought were interesting. It can be considered unlucky to kill a robin. Don’t knw who’s going around killing robins? But I suppose…

Amy: Cruel, cruel people. 

Carolyn: Cruel people [Mhmm] or I’ll warrant accidentally it can happen but still. I don’t know who’s going, ‘that’s the one I want.’

[Laughter]

Amy: Stay away from our jaunty little fellows.

Carolyn: Stay away from our jaunty little… exactly. Seeing a robin in the air coming at you, going toward your right is an omen of improved fortune. If it’s on your roof, it protects the home from lightning. {Hmm} If robins are singing near a wedding, that brings love and marital bliss to the couple. [Aww]

When robins feed in your garden, important news approaches. [Hmm] They also often symbolize the end of one phase and beginning of another, like spring. They’re not known for being creatures that look backwards. That’s part of the spring new beginnings living in the present. 

It’s believed, and I’m not sure the resources didn’t necessarily say where, so I don’t know which cultures, but it’s believed that if they visit you in a dream and flies away from you in that dream, it’s time to let go of something that’s impossible or to let go of the would’ve, should’ve, could’ve you might be holding onto. [Hmm] And that’s pretty much it for symbolism.

Stephanie: I like that. If a bird is coming at me, I’ve never looked at it long enough to determine the direction it is flying. [Laughter] I usually just duck and hide.

Amy: Yes, there’s usually some screaming involved. [Laughter] I believe I have been thrown towards the bird in some situations.

[Laughter]

Stephanie: Ok. I don’t think I have ever thrown you towards a bird. Unless it was one of the Canadian geese at our college. 

Carolyn: I was gonna say, was it a black swan?

[Laughter]

Amy: We were in… weren’t we in the airport? I feel like we were in JFK and you were so freaked out…

Stephanie: I’ve never been to JFK. That was not me. 

Amy: We were somewhere, we were in some airport and there were birds and I remember the entire layover you were so freaked out.

Stephanie: I have an irrational fear, okay? I am scared their beak is going to get stuck in my head. 

[Laughter]

Carolyn: We have some nesting geese near our library. There are signs that say, ‘They’re aggressive geese. Stay away.’

Stephanie: Whether they’re nesting or not, [Just stay away] they are an aggressive bird. 

Carolyn: I mean, yeah, it’s a goose. Let’s get real.

[Laughter]

Stephanie: I’ve watched people get chased by them on their way to class in college.

Carolyn: They are mean. All right. Well, they’re not the ones we’re talking about though today, so anyway. 

Amy: Anyway. We digress.

Carolyn:  We digress. 

Stephanie: Alright, coming back. We’re gonna go into Who’s Patronus is it Anyway?

[🎶 Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out who’s Patronus is it Anyway?🎶]

Carolyn: Okay, I felt very inspired by this one the other day.

Stephanie: Take it away! 

Carolyn: Alright. I’m going to start with my trademark. Hear me out. [Laughter] I feel like I say that every time.

Stephanie: From reading the doc, I feel like this one you don’t need to be heard out.

Carolyn: No. Actually, I feel like this one is an…

Amy: This one makes sense. 

Carolyn: This one I thought made really good sense. I said Augusta Longbottom. When you look at her character arc, which we don’t see very fully in the books, she basically goes through a period of transition with the First Wizarding War. Because her son and his wife are tortured. 

She finds herself at a crossroads of having to be there for her grandson, and having to accept what her son and daughter-in-law had gone through. To the point where there not past away so seeing a robin for her wouldn’t be a loved one, that tie-in isn’t there. 

But she has to kind of take on the more parental figure role less of the grandparent role. Everybody knows, grandparents, they’re the goody. ‘Grandma and grandpa let us get away with everything.’ 

My dad, actually, [Laughter] random tangent, has a sign in his garage over his workbench and it basically says, ‘if they had told us how much fun grandkids were, we would have had them first.’

[Laughter]

Basically that mentality gets ripped away from Augusta. [Mhmm] I think you see that reflected in how she’s firmer with him. Neville’s always like, ‘Gran says I forget things too much and she was worried I was a squib.’ A lot of what you see of Augusta is I think her coming across more parental and less of a grandma.

She has to accept. She has to move forward instead of looking back at her son. Now she doesn’t do that the best. A lot of times she compares Neville to her son and tells him all the ways he’s not as good as his father. 

I don’t think she’s always doing it the right way, but I think that is why this would be a good Patronus for her. As kind of a constant reminder. You need to let go of the past. You need to move forward. 

I think the Patronus, while they represent something in you a lot of times, they also can represent something you need to be doing. I think, in some ways. That was why I came up with that. That’s where my head went.

Amy: I really like this.

Stephanie: I really liked that too. I was gonna go with Molly Weasley because I figured it fit but I’m not even gonna go down that road because this feels like it fits so much better.

Carolyn: See, I was going to say, how do you see Molly Weasley? I’m curious.

[Laughter]

Stephanie: I forget what exactly picked it out because I’m just so… I just love Augusta so much.

Carolyn: Well, when I saw this. When I finished the symbolism stuff yesterday. I was finishing up what I already kind of started and what some of the others had started on the doc and I was like, my god, this is perfect for this. I mean, it can’t all be main character energy as my kids would say.

Stephanie: Love it! 

Amy: Yeah. No, this makes sense because like you said, Patronus is, what was it that it was defined as? It reflects the secret self or something like that, right? 

Carolyn: I think so. Yeah.

Amy: Even if it’s not something she outwardly practices all the time, her secret self knows that that’s what she needs to be doing. That’s the thing that’s coming forward in the Patronus form.

Carolyn: Right, yeah, and that’s kind of what I think… …are already and you present it in every… …your life or it’s trying to tell you something. You could make the same argument about Tonks’ switch in Patronus in my opinion. 

Although I think Tonks was denying herself anything. I think that was other factors. A change in Patronus was trying to send a message as well. 

Stephanie: I like that aspect even more, thinking about it from that standpoint, where if her Patronus did start out as something else and it turned into a robin, while her son and daughter-in-law are still there physically, they might not be there in the same mental capacity, so it could still be that loved one, knowing that you need to let it go or giving you that message.

Carolyn: Yeah. A bit of a stretch because, in this case, her son’s not dead telling her to move on, but it’s still trying to tell her to move on in a way.

Amy: Right. Right.

Stephanie: While her son physically is still there and she still has that connection, the son she knew, he is gone and passed on. If you want to think about it that way in the next sense.

Carolyn: Very true. Yeah, so this is where that was. I feel like mine usually are a streach.. This one feels appropriate for once.

[Laughter]

Stephanie: Very appropriate. I did not look at this and go, where the heck is Carolyn coming from?

Amy: For once Carolyn didn’t need the ‘hear me out’.

[Laughter]

Carolyn: Yeah, but I think that’s gonna be my phrase now. Whenever, it is Whose Patronus is it Anyway? I have to.

Amy: We are going to have to get you a shirt. It’s gonna have our logo on it and say, ‘hear me out.’

[Laughter]

Carolyn: Hear me out. Because I am usually pushing the boundaries a little bit.

Stephanie: Which I love. It keeps it interesting.

Amy: It makes it fun. All right. So that’s it for this episode. Join us next week when we talk about the Borzoi. And you can find us on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram at @ExpectoPodtronum, over on Twitter or X @ExpectoPod. 

You can also support the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash ExpectoPodtronum. Our Patreon supporters help us pay the bills basically. So. you’re helping us keep the show online, keep the website running, all of that good stuff. 

And we post a lot of extra content over on Patreon. you’re getting something in return for sure. We get bonus episodes every month and other goodies over there. So check it out.

We would also love to hear from you. So send us a Patronus to any of our social media outlets or email us at expectopodronum@gmail.com. And if you’ve got a second, leave us a review. It really helps us out, helps us get found by more listeners. 

Yeah. All right. Until next time, I’m Amy.

Carolyn: I’m Carolyn.

Stephanie: And I’m Stephanie. Remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the dementors away.

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