Stephanie: Hello, and welcome to episode seven of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. I’m your host Stephanie. 

Lucy: I’m Lucy.

Carolyn: And I’m Carolyn. And today we’re talking about the calico cat, and it’s my Patronus! Yay! [Cheering] I should preface this with, it is my original Patronus. 

Stephanie: I’m pretty sure this is the first episode we’ve had where this is one of our core hosts’ Patronus.

Lucy: Yes. 

Carolyn: I love it! Ah, yay! I have to actually double-check too, because I think they…it took research for me to figure out that this was the cat they meant, because they say it differently on Wizarding World.

Stephanie: Unlike most of the cats that we’re gonna be talking about, calico refers to the pattern of the cat and not a specific breed. 

Lucy: Which is very interesting. I did not know that until I did some myths and legends lookup, and I was like, what? 

Carolyn: I had some idea of it even prior to this being my Patronus, because I always thought these were so cute. Definitely one of my favorite cats. I was excited.

Stephanie: They’re adorable. It’s just, it’s nuts for me thinking that like any cat we technically could talk about could also be a calico depending on their coloration. So in theory, does that mean someone could have a double Patronus? 

Carolyn: Add one more color to my Siamese cat, and he’s a calico!

Stephanie: Ooh?

Lucy: Ooh. Wait, you’re probably talking about this later on. But like… If a Siamese cat is a calico, is it also classified as a Siamese?

Carolyn: I don’t know. Wait, say that again? Am I missing something?

Stephanie: I have no idea how cat classifications work. 

Lucy: So since a calico cat is just based on color, it’s what, three colors? And it’s not actually a breed. But if you have a Siamese cat that has three colors, is it classified as both a calico and a Siamese?

Carolyn: Yeah. So it– default only has two colors, like most Siamese, but if there is a third color, yeah I think it would be technically both. It would be a calico and a Siamese, because the Siamese is referring to a breed specifically and its like, region of origin or something so– and by the way, I just checked my old Pottermore – because I refuse to call it Wizarding World – and they call it a tortoiseshell cat on there. 

[Transcriber’s note: tortoiseshell and calico are both descriptions for cats with multicolored fur, but the two are not the same thing. “Tortoiseshell” generally describes a cat whose fur is mostly black or gray with orange mottling, while “calico” describes a cat whose fur is colored in large patches of black, white, and orange. Because calico is a description of a cat’s markings and coloring rather than a breed, a cat of some specific breed could also be a calico. Officially, however, Siamese is not one of the breeds that can be calico. To be a calico, a Siamese cat would have to be a mixed breed.]

Lucy: Oh I have seen…yeah. 

Carolyn: …Which confused the heck out of me.

Lucy: I had seen that word pop up. 

Carolyn: Yeah, I was like, “What is this thing?” And then I dug into it and I was like, “Oh, that’s the one I like!” [Laughter] Got all excited. But it really did. When I first took the test, I was like, “What is a tortoiseshell cat? I don’t even know what that means.” And of course, when you’re watching the graphic, it’s just a blue glowy cat. So you have no idea! [Laughter]

Stephanie: MMhmm. Yeah. Much like Lucy mentioned, their coat features three colors, and like I said, it can appear in various cat breeds without affecting the cat’s personality or lifespan. Male calico cats are extremely rare, occurring only about one in 3,000 male cat births. This is due to a genetic anomaly that gives them an extra X chromosome. And if there is a male cat that’s born a calico, one in 10,000 are sterile because of the genetic anomaly.

[Transcriber’s note: this last statistic is backwards; most male calico cats are sterile. Only one in 10,000 is fertile.]

Lucy: Yeah, so that’s very interesting that they’re only females. 

Stephanie: Yeah, I thought that was insane, especially because it’s just like, coloring? And I know that from previous episodes of different animals, coloring can have a lot to do with genetics? Thank you, Science Liz, Science with Liz. [Laughter] But I didn’t think about it affecting the gender or one gender so much specifically. 

Carolyn: Isn’t that kind of similar to color blindness in adults? So like, you’ll more often have a male, a man, who’s colorblind, and it’s extremely rare for a female to be colorblind. And it takes– I don’t remember where I heard this fact. Watch, this will be wrong, and they’ll like, we’ll get a million emails of how wrong I am! But like, I’ve always heard that colorblindness runs through men more often than…and it’s almost like they’re more likely to end up with that, and it takes… You actually have to have a mother and a father who are colorblind for a girl to be colorblind. So it might be a kind of similar parallel. 

Stephanie: Interesting. I do think that the colorblindness thing is more prominent in men because of all the people I know, I know like three or four males that are colorblind and I don’t know any females. I mean that’s a small pool, like a drop in the bucket of population, but…

Lucy: Wait. Sorry. I have to backtrack because I was curious if a calico could also be a Siamese. Like, you know, that breed. And I read – there’s this article on tortoiseshell cats, which what you said is also a calico. But they said: “They are often mistaken for calicos and vice versa, since they are very similar in color. The main difference between the two is that tortoiseshell cats have black base coats, but calicos have a white base coat.” And just to confuse you even more, outside the US, many people call them tortoiseshells even if they have a white base. 

Stephanie: Interesting. So technically, a tortoiseshell and a calico are different. 

Lucy: Different!

Stephanie: But more often than not they kind of just get lumped together?

Lucy: Mm-hmm!

Carolyn: Interesting. 

Lucy: And considering we don’t know what color your Patronus is…

Carolyn: Because we won’t know, because there’s no way to know….

Lucy: And since it’s a British-based book, are they classifying tortoiseshells and calico as the same, or are you actually a black-based cat? That you actually are a tortoiseshell? So confusing. 

Carolyn: Well, [censored] them. I’m gonna go with calico. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: I’m now also trying to check if tortoiseshells even… tortoiseshell is still listed as a Patronus. 

Carolyn: Well, then that makes even less sense. I don’t know. I guess I gotta be on both episodes now!

Stephanie: Yeah. So look forward to that fun episode in a future season where we get to dive more into that. And maybe after we complete that recording, we will do a bonus episode comparing the two!

Carolyn: Oh, I’ll do that one! Ah, watch. And then I’ll find out now that I’m like, I don’t know, a manatee. Watch. There’s… Or a goldfish. I don’t think there’s any fish, but that’s okay. 

Stephanie: There are fish. 

Carolyn: [Gasp] Even better. I wanna be a fish. 

Stephanie: There’s like…an orca. There’s salmon, a shark. Technically, I know orcas are mammals, but to me, if it swims, it’s just going to automatically go in the fishy category. [Transcriber’s note: “fish” do not exist.]

Carolyn: Makes sense. 

Stephanie: Anywho, now that we’ve gotten distracted even further by talking about fish…

Carolyn: I still say this is mine. 

Stephanie: We’ll have to compare and contrast one day! Really see. 

Stephanie: So, no one is exactly sure where the calico originated from, though most likely – or, most people assume it’s from Egypt, because I feel like that’s where a lot of cats get their origin, but…I’m no cat expert, I’m more of a dog person. And they got traded along the Mediterranean. In 2001, the calico cat became the official cat for the state of Maryland! Whoot whoot. Only three states in the United States have an official cat representative for their state mammal, and those are Maine, Massachusetts, and Maryland. 

Carolyn: Hmm. Interesting. Hmm.

Lucy: Hopefully those states will come up when we talk about other cats, so we’ll find out what cats they are! [Laughter] 

Carolyn: Are they all different ones? [Laughter] 

Stephanie: I believe based off of what this states, yes. It says they have official cat representatives for their mammal, but it does not state what cats. So…we may have to do a little extra research, except for Maryland. We know Maryland. This is Maryland. 

Carolyn: Yes, definitely. This one. This one, right here. 

Stephanie: This one. So their personality is sassy, spunky, bold, affectionate, independent, but still loyal. 

Lucy: Love that. 

Lucy: Now, the myths and legends, my favorite part. The cats are always– we know, in general, cats are very worshipped around the world. You look at the Egyptian culture and everywhere else. But I found this one interesting: calico cats are thought to bring good luck in Japan – which, we do know that cats are very lucky over there in Asia just in general, by the lucky cat thing? 

Carolyn: Not in India though. 

Lucy: Not in India? Ooh. 

Carolyn: No, they’re considered bad luck! They hate them. Or at least, that’s what my husband says. 

Lucy: Isn’t the cow over there the good luck one? 

Carolyn: Yes, they’re very big on the cow, not so big on the cats. In fact, I’ve had many a couple come over and more often than not, the first time, they’ll freak out about my cat. They’re thoroughly terrified. And my husband did not even want to get a cat at first. He was like, “We can’t have one of those!” It felt very Italian to me actually, because I know in Italy they don’t really like them, but we always had cats growing up! [Laughter] 

Stephanie: So then is your husband Indian? Of Indian descent? 

Carolyn: Yes, my husband was actually born in New Delhi!

Lucy: Cool! 

Stephanie: I didn’t know that, so that connection was a little bit of a trip to get to for me. So I just wanted to clarify. 

Carolyn: It works out very well. I get my… Because of my white first name and Indian last name, I always get my name as a handle for social. [Laughter] 

Lucy: Love it. But I just looked up on our list that we don’t have the cow as a Patronus, which is like, why? 

Stephanie: Episode!

Carolyn: An episode of all the things: why aren’t these? We do have that, right? That’s a bonus one somewhere in the plan?

Lucy: Yeah, there’s about five parts to that, “Why isn’t this a Patronus?”

Stephanie: Yeah, so pop that in the list. Cow. Not calling you a cow! Saying, “Pop the cow in the list.”

Lucy: Yeah, well I’m also just thinking just how significant they are in India and how much they’re worshipped. It’s like, why aren’t they on here? 

Carolyn: They are very – it’s a big deal!

Stephanie: Cat podcast. 

Carolyn: They are sacred. 

Stephanie: Not cows. 

Carolyn: Cow, not cat. Cow. Yes. 

Lucy: Cow, yeah. 

Carolyn: Cow. Very sacred. Anyway.

Stephanie: Cats! 

Lucy: Back to our regularly scheduled programming. [Laughter] 

Carolyn: And this has been Random Animal Tangent with Expecto Podtronum. 

Lucy: That is now our punchline as well, “Back to our regularly scheduled program.” [Laughter]  

Lucy: So we’re talking about cats in Japan. In the past years, Japanese sailors would travel with a calico cat on board their ships for protection! In 2007, a cat named…Tama? Was officially named station master at one of the stations in Japan called… Kirishi station? I believe that’s how it’s pronounced? In the…Wagonama?

Stephanie: Wakayama?

Lucy: …region. 

Carolyn: I was gonna say, your guess is as good as mine. Yeah. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: For some reason I’m going with like, Wak-a-yama, but…

Lucy: Wak-a-yama? 

Stephanie: …I’m probably wrong. 

[Transcriber’s note: The station is Kishi, pronounced KEE-shee. The region is Wakayama, pronounced wa-KAYA-ma.]

Lucy: Someone will tell us how to pronounce it correctly. And she was the first feline station master in Japan. And not the last, let me tell you. Tama was given a station master’s hat and her salary was paid in cat food. [Gasp] And she was knighted! By the governor, in two thousand fi– no, I don’t know when she was knighted.

Carolyn: Wait, they got knights in Japan? [Laughter]

Stephanie: Apparently! The cat is knighted. 

Lucy: Apparently! 

Carolyn: That’s cool.

Lucy: And apparently according to statistics, their ticket sales rose more than 10% in the 16 years that she was there! Also, who wouldn’t want to go to a station where… That has a cat as their master? As it says, there’s more station cats all around Japan now, so we’ll have to go and find them! But sadly, in 2015, Tama passed away at 16 years of age, and over a thousand people attended her funeral at the station.

Stephanie: I hope that many people come to my funeral And I want to be loved as much as that cat!

Carolyn: Aww. Yeah. I feel like had they known that cats on a boat is good luck, then we wouldn’t have had the black plague. None of the rats would have made it over. Sorry, the historian in me is coming out. [Laughter]

Lucy: So true!

Stephanie: That is probably a very fair point. Yeah. 

Lucy: And in the US and the UK, male calicos, which are very rare, it’s very rare to get a male, are thought to be especially lucky just because they’re rare. And sometimes they’re referred to as money cats! 

Stephanie: Aww. That’s so cute!

Lucy: So yeah, if you get a male calico…keep it. 

Carolyn: Good to know. I don’t think I ever want a male cat again after the one I have now. [Laughter] My cat’s a jerk! [Laughter]

Stephanie: I wonder if those are the cats that you see waving from some Asian…

Carolyn: That’s Chinese, though. Aren’t those Chinese? I feel like the waving cats are Chinese. Now I’m going to look that up. 

Lucy: But I also feel like I’ve seen them like in Japanese culture as well. 

Stephanie: I’m just wondering if that’s that cat. Because I feel like if I’m remembering correctly, and for those of you that can’t see my arm in my hand, I’m talking about the waving cat? Where its arm waves?

Carolyn: We’ll find a picture of it to put in the show notes. I’m going to make a note here in the doc so that we don’t forget! [Laughter]

Stephanie: But I wonder if those are the same thing. 

Lucy: The waving cat is called the Maneki… niko? neko? 

Stephanie: Niko, yeah. [Transcriber’s note: maneki neko is pronounced ma-nicki-necko.]

Carolyn: Oh, it does say Japanese lucky cat. Yeah. Here you go, Wikipedia! All right, there you go. Okay, wait, I’m gonna read this Wikipedia entry. Everybody can look this up themselves, but I’m gonna read it real quick for our listeners. 

“The maneki neko beckoning cat is a common Japanese figurine which is often believed to bring good luck to the owner. In modern times, they are usually made of ceramic or plastic. The figurine depicts a cat, traditionally a calico Japanese bobtail, with a paw raised in a beckoning gesture. The figurines are often displayed in shops, restaurants, pachinko parlors, dry cleaners, laundromats,” blah blah. The list goes on… “Generally near the entrance as well as households. Some are equipped with a mechanical paw which slowly moves back and forth.” So I guess they don’t have to be moving according to the Wikipedia entry. “They come in different colors and styles and vary in degrees of detail,” and common colors, then they list black. red, white, and gold. 

Stephanie: Yay, okay!

Carolyn: And then there’s lots of different forms. So there’s more information. We can… I’ll add this stuff to the docs so that we remember to put some of those. 

Stephanie: But those are the cats. I thought they looked like calicoes. I just, that makes me happy that I’m not losing my mind. 

Carolyn: You were right! I, for some reason, mixed up that they were not and thought Chinese, but. 

Stephanie: And I was just going in Asian culture. I wasn’t even, I don’t, I didn’t even specifically remember which, unfortunately. 

Lucy: Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if. they are found in other Asian cultures? Just because of everything these days. It’s pretty much easy just to…and also people moving around a lot having mixed cultures as well, that they have found their way into other cultures? So we probably have seen them in other Asian countries. Yeah. 

Carolyn: Probably. But this is something… We’ll put this in the episode page of our website. Some pictures and a link to the article with some more info, because I seriously thought that they were Chinese, not Japanese, which just shows how ignorant I am!

Lucy: It’s fine, that’s why we’re here! We’re here to teach people. 

Carolyn: Exactly. 

Lucy: We don’t claim to know everything! [Laughter]

Stephanie: That is true. 

Stephanie: So since we just played Is That the Cat with the niko – or the neko, I’m sorry – Is That the Cat with the neko, how about we play Is This the Cat to figure out if the Patronus belongs to Umbridge or McGonagall? 

[Could this Patronus belong to Dolores Umbridge or Professor McGonagall? Find out on Is This the Cat?]

Lucy: I’m gonna just say [censored] no. 

Carolyn: I like it.

Lucy: [Censored] no. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Yep!

Carolyn: Oh, to Umbridge? 

Lucy: To both. 

Stephanie: My notes are: “For Umbridge, seems too nice. For McGonagall, seems too fun.”

Lucy: Yeah. 

Carolyn: Yeah, I don’t see it for either one of them. 

Stephanie: No, it’s just… 

Carolyn: I have my thoughts for which… I think I know exactly which cat Umbridge is, but I don’t think it’s actually a Patronus. 

Stephanie: Ooh! That would be fun to visit later. I don’t want… [Whispered] I don’t want you to give it away!

Carolyn: [Whispered] No, I don’t want to give it away either!

Stephanie: Ok. [Laughter] But yeah, it’s just… There’s too much based on all the mythology and the research and everything around it. It’s just, there’s so much positivity surrounding this specific type of cat that it does not match the negativity that Umbridge brings to the table in the slightest. 

Carolyn: Oh, no. There’s no way that this cat is Umbridge. I will, just for sake of argument, say there is the tiniest possibility it could be McGonagall, even though I agree with your point of “seems too fun” in general; for a very strict lady, this doesn’t quite fit? But you could maybe make the argument, just with the good luck and the fact that they use them for protection in Japan, that maybe? Because I do see McGonagall as a very protective woman, especially when it comes to the students in her house?

Lucy: Also, she’s a very lucky lady. She had three stunning spells hit her and she still survived. 

Carolyn: I would argue that those are points that you could maybe go, “Ooh, maybe?” But in general, I do agree with your point. Nah, this is too fun of a cat and too…not stern enough for…

Stephanie: Yeah. I agree.

Carolyn: I mean, think of Harry alone! Think of how protective she…

Stephanie: She’s very loyal. She’s very independent, and she is sassy, which are three of the characteristics, but…she’s not really affectionate?

Carolyn: Yeah, there’s stuff where you lose me. So I wouldn’t, I would just argue that of the two of them, if I had to pick one of them, if I was like, hands tied, one of them has to have this cat, I would lean more McGonagall for those reasons. 

Stephanie: 120% agree. 

Carolyn: But yes, in general, I agree. Too fun of a cat. Not stern enough. I do not know who. I have a very definitive idea for Umbridge. I got nothing for McGonagall as to which one I think yet. 

Lucy: I wouldn’t be surprised if McGonagall’s the same as her Animagus, a tabby cat, but we’ll have to wait and see for that episode!

Carolyn: So, alright, just because we’re talking about that though, and I know we’ll dig way more into that, but wouldn’t that be too on the nose? 

Stephanie: I don’t know!

Carolyn: It feels like we already have, just because we have other representations of that, where like… James is the stag, isn’t his Patronus the stag? 

Lucy: Yeah, but Carolyn, you have to wait until our episode where we talk about Animagus and Patronuses: are they linked? 

Carolyn: I know. I don’t like waiting. 

Stephanie: I think that is this season, though! Pretty sure that one is this season. 

Carolyn: All the more reason to subscribe, everybody! 

Stephanie: Yes! You won’t have to wait long. 

Lucy: …Which is a nice finish! You can find us on every social media platform, so please follow us over there where we post a lot of things. You can also find us on… Patreon, where we have a lot of fun and we do a lot of bonus episodes that you probably won’t ever see here! And you can also contact us on every social media platform, including our email address. So join us next week for the Black Swan, which, honestly, I’m not going to enjoy. Until then, that’s goodbye from me1

Carolyn: And goodbye from me!Stephanie: And everyone remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the Dementors away.

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