Stephanie: Hello, and welcome to episode six of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. I’m your host Stephanie. 

Lucy: I’m Lucy. 

Amy: I’m Amy. 

Sidney: And I’m Sidney. And today we will be talking about the dragon. 

Lucy: Woo! [Laughter] The dragon is our first magical creature. How exciting. 

Stephanie: I know, I’m excited!

Amy: This is a fun one; there’s lots of info. 

Stephanie: So much info. 

Sidney: And everyone likes dragons, so.

Amy: Who doesn’t love a good dragon? We know Barty Crouch loves them. Especially those Chinese Fireballs. [Laughter]

Stephanie: As almost everybody’s aware, it’s basically classified as a large lizard or serpent-like creature. The most common visualization is the European version, which is a classic large-bodied lizard, four legs, wings, fire-breathing, you know, basically your standard dragon. And they most often represent evil, chaos, or an untamed nature. 

They are a very important symbol in the Chinese culture, and there they can represent wisdom, strength, power, divinity, and spiritual power as well. So they’re a lot more positive in the Chinese culture as compared to what they’re usually viewed as. 

Amy: Yeah, it’s interesting the difference between Western and Eastern dragons and depictions and…what they mean and all that. 

Sidney: Yeah, they even look different. I know in Chinese culture they don’t always have legs, or they are much more serpent-like than lizard-like? [Transcriber’s note: correction incoming.]

Lucy: Yeah, all I have in my head at the moment is just Mushu from Mulan. [Laughter]

Amy: Yep. Classic.

Lucy: Just coming out of his little hibernation? [Laughter]

Sidney: I always liked books about dragons and stuff, so I’m thinking about like, Eragon?

Stephanie: Toothless is also currently in my head. 

Amy: Yeah. More recently, Fourth Wing.

Stephanie: But in Chinese culture, it is believed that dragons can alter their physical form as well. So they’re often associated with change and transformation. 

Amy: When I was researching dragons, I thought it was interesting that basically around the globe, there’s some sort of version of dragons in so many different cultures. So it’s interesting that ancient humans could really develop similar creatures in their myths and folklore on opposite ends of the globe. Actually, scientists and historians have been trying to figure out what might have inspired those similar depictions across cultures? I found this really good article from the Smithsonian that talks about this a little bit and maybe where ancient people got the inspiration from. 

One of the ideas is maybe dinosaur fossils, because we know those can be found pretty much anywhere in the world. Ancients discovering those fossils might have recreated what those creatures would have looked like in their art and stories and come up with explanations for those fossils that they were finding. 

Another suggestion is whale bones, because obviously, you know, that long ago, they didn’t really know what was under the ocean. It was pretty mysterious. So if whale bones and skeletons washed up anywhere, it could look like a huge creature and they wouldn’t necessarily know it was from underwater. That could be a possible explanation. 

And this one’s actually my favorite because I didn’t really know much about Nile crocodiles? But apparently, this is one that’s kind of a popular theory. Nile crocodiles could have had a more extensive habitat in ancient times, so they could have maybe crossed the Mediterranean into Greece or Italy, which could explain the reach of dragon legends to Europe. And – this is really weird – Nile crocodiles are able to lift their front end up and walk on their hind legs in an upright position. If you picture a crocodile walking like that, that kind of explains dragon imagery a little bit? You can see where, you know, the little arms in the front, walking along, the long legs, the sound…

Stephanie: That’s terrifying. 

Lucy: I’m not sure if I like the idea of crocodiles walking on their two feet. 

Stephanie: A little terrifying. 

Sidney: I have to correct something I said earlier, because I know that I said it wrong, and I remember, and it’s going to haunt me. I said Chinese dragons don’t always have legs? I meant they don’t have wings. In Chinese depictions, dragons don’t usually have wings. They do have legs though, so [laughing] I’m just correcting that before we get comments. [Laughter]

Stephanie: …I don’t want to see a crocodile on two feet. 

Lucy: I just don’t want to see a crocodile at all. Well, in the wild, like, no. 

Amy: Yeah, no. No, thank you. 

Sidney: Behind bulletproof glass would be fine, but that’s about it. [Laughter]

Amy: You probably have more crocodiles where you are, Sidney, than we would. 

Sidney: Do I? 

Amy: I don’t know. Aren’t they like, in the South? [Laughing] Or is that just alligators? [Laughter] I don’t know, you’re South, right? That’s where crocodiles live. [Laughter]

Lucy: No, you guys have alligators in America. Crocodiles are everywhere else. I think. 

Stephanie: Okay, we got the off-breed. 

Lucy: Yeah. 

Amy: I’m pretty sure we have crocodiles. 

Sidney: Yeah, we do! Yeah. I live in a place where I can see a crocodile, theoretically. That’s terrifying!

Amy: That’s what I’m saying!

Lucy: Off you go, go out and hunt some and see if you can spot some for this podcast. 

Amy: Current population: 20,000. 

Stephanie: That’s a lot. 

Amy: Where… Yeah, I don’t know where they are, but yeah. 

Lucy: The things you learn…

Stephanie: 20,000 is more than I am comfortable with. The things that this podcast has already taught me…

Sidney: Okay, no, no. I have to correct this too, because no, we don’t have crocodiles, we have alligators. [Laughter]

Stephanie: We are recording this on probably the most Monday Monday. 

Amy: Alright. This says the American crocodile can be found in the Neotropics. They are in South Florida, o there are some in the US. Cuba, Jamaica, Mexico, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela… Hmm. Interesting. 

Stephanie: And none of those facts are comforting. 

Amy: No, terrifying. 

Sidney: Why are y’all scared? [Laughter]

Stephanie: I was just talking about for human population in general, not specifically me. I’ll take my crocodile-less…upstate New York. 

Lucy: No, don’t worry. It gets even scarier when you can just go to a beach up in northern Queensland and they go, “Don’t go swimming, because there’s crocodiles in the water. Don’t even go near the water.”

Amy: Yeah, I wouldn’t survive in Australia. 

Lucy: I wonder how we all survive, honestly. [Laughter]

Amy: You have all sorts of scary stuff there. 

Lucy: Yep.

Stephanie: Mmm, no. 

Sidney: Yeah, good luck with that. 

Lucy: And some of those scary animals will rock up here!We’ll talk about those later! [Laughter]

Stephanie: [Laughing] So, back to dragons. [Laughter] Do we even have a crocodile episode? 

Amy: This is the crocodile. 

Sidney: Does Rowling know that crocodiles exist? 

Lucy: I reckon this is basically, “What Patronus don’t we have that relates to the dragon? A crocodile, and alligators.” There we go. 

Stephanie: So if you have this Patronus, it might mean that you like to act fast and play by your own set of rules, you’re a fierce fighter, you do not back down from a challenge, and you are assertive and ambitious. 

Lucy: And isn’t it also very rare to get a magical Patronus? 

Stephanie: Yes. 

Lucy: So you’re a rare person. 

Stephanie: Very unique. 

Amy: There’s only – what, ten of them, in a list of…how many?

Stephanie: A-hundred-something? 

Sidney: Two hundred?

Amy: Two-hundred-something? Yeah? [Laughter] However many episodes we’re gonna have. [Laughter]

Sidney: Wait, that was one hundred. Sorry. [Laughter] 

Amy: Oh, one hundred? [Laughter]

Sidney: Aren’t you glad you invited me to help host this? Because I am so great at saying facts wrong the first time and then correcting them. [Laughter] Maybe we can edit all of that out. 

Amy: At least you correct it.

Stephanie: Just more for blooper reels.

Amy: In the Harry Potter universe, there are a bunch of different varieties of dragons. I wanted to list them off in a little bit of what we know of each one. The Hungarian Horntail: obviously we all know that one. It’s the one that Harry faces in the Triwizard Tournament. The Horntail is the deadliest dragon breed. It’s equipped with bronze horns and can shoot flames up to fifty feet. 

Lucy: Sorry, I need to work out how far feet are. 

Stephanie: We need to start just automatically doing conversions. 

Amy: Our conversion calculator. 

Sidney: Three feet to a meter. 

Lucy: So that’s 15.24 metres. 

Amy: Are you sure?

Sidney: Yes, I’m sure!

Lucy: I’ll check that as well. What was it? Three? Yeah, three feet is roughly one meter. It’s ninety-one centimetres. 

Amy: So we now will just have to fact-check Sidney. [Laughter] Can we have a live fact-checker? [Laughter] 

Lucy: Okay, so that’s fifteen metres. That’s a long way. I don’t know if I like that. 

Amy: No, bigger than a crocodile. 

Lucy: I wonder how far his little dragon can do fire. ‘Cause that little dragon was so cute. Well, as cute as a Horntail dragon can be. 

Amy: Oh yeah, he had a little miniature.

Sidney: I think the cutest Horntail is the one from the Very Potter Musical. I love it. It’s adorable. The most fearsome beast. [Laughter] 

Amy: There’s also the Common Welsh Green, which lives in the mountains in Wales, obviously. This is the one that Fleur has to face in the Triwizard Tournament. Wizarding lore says a Welsh Green may have been responsible for the Great Fire of London in 1666. 

Lucy: That would make sense. 

Amy: That’s the word on the street. 

Stephanie: Mmm, love it.

Lucy: Well, that fire did spread pretty quickly, so. But then again, all of the houses were made out of wood. So, who knows? 

Amy: True. 

Sidney: Are we going to say that the Hungarian Horntail is responsible for the Chicago Fire, or do we know? 

Amy: Maybe? [Laughter] 

Lucy: Well, we still have like another five more – ten more dragons to go through, so we might find another one that fits that criteria. 

Amy: Then there’s Mr. Crouch’s favorite, the Chinese Fireball, which is… 

Lucy, Stephanie, & Sidney: Oooh… [Laughter] 

Amy: Yes, all together now. “Ooooh.” [Laughter] It’s also called the Liondragon. The Chinese Fireball has smooth red scales and golden spikes, and it shoots balls of fire, as the name suggests. And this is the one that Krum has to get past in the Triwizard Tournament. 

Lucy: Well, I’m assuming by that the name is ,the Chinese Fireball, that’s probably the one that’s closest to the depiction in the Chinese culture? Because every Chinese New Year I just see the beautiful red dragons that they have, and they do the little dancing?

Amy: It does sound like it, because there’s the red… 

Lucy: Yeah, going by the other names, the Swedish and Norwegian, I’m assuming that’s where they come from. 

Amy: The Swedish Shortsnout lives in the mountains. It’s a silvery-blue color. And the flame is so hot, it is blue and it can turn bone to ash. And that’s the one that Cedric had to go up against in the Triwizard Tournament. 

Lucy: I’m really thinking about…how they got dragons. If a dragon can just turn your bone into ash, safety at Hogwarts ain’t great. 

Stephanie: Charlie Weasley, man. 

Lucy: We need to just have a bonus episode of just…safety at Hogwarts, with all these animals. 

Amy: I mean, if they’re shooting fire at fifty feet- 

Lucy: That could go into the grandstands easily!

Stephanie: Literally. 

Amy: Right! You could just incinerate the crowd. What are we doing? [Laughter] 

Stephanie: Harry’s broke the chain really easily. Caused all sorts of havoc. Surprised no one got injured there.

Amy: The Norwegian Ridgeback lives in the mountains of Norway, has venomous fangs and black ridges down its back, and it eats large mammals, sometimes water mammals like whales. Norbert was a Norwegian Ridgeback. 

Lucy: Aww, poor Norbert.

Stephanie: I guess that’s a fitting dragon for Hagrid to have if it… picks up a whale and eats it. [Laughter] 

Amy: Then we have the Peruvian Vipertooth, which has smooth copper-colored scales and short horns, also has venomous fangs, and is actually small for a dragon, at only fifteen feet long. “Only.”

Lucy: “Only,” yeah.

Amy: It feeds on goats, cows, and hmm, humans! Not scary at all. 

Sidney: Yeah, I know all about that one because it’s the answer to one of the quiz questions in the Charlie Weasley bonding lunchtime in Hogwarts Mystery. He asks you questions about dragons, and that’s the reason that I remember the types of dragons. 

Amy: Nice. Look at this great knowledge stored away! [Laughter] Because of its danger to humans, wizards attempted to lessen the population in the late 1800s, according to Fantastic Beasts. 

Lucy: Is this another war against animals that we lost? 

Amy: I would say so, because I think the Peruvian Vipertooth is doing just fine. [Laughter] 

Lucy: Yeah. God, we don’t…

Amy: I don’t think we stood a chance.

Lucy: Yeah, we don’t do very well if we declare war against some sort of animals, apparently. 

Sidney: Yeah, so… 

Amy: Especially dragons, that’s a bad idea. 

Sidney: Peruvian Vipertooth killed Harry Potter’s grandparents. James Potter’s parents died of Dragon Pox, which came from Peruvian Vipertooths, so they are responsible for the deaths of Harry Potter’s grandparents. 

Lucy: Okay, that makes more sense if they’re responsible for Dragon Pox, because if they’re just responsible just by killing them by fire, it’s just like, okay. Dragon Pox makes more sense. [Laughter] 

Amy: So they eat humans, and they can give them Dragon Pox. So that’s why… Yeah. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: Should have just left them alone. Probably wouldn’t have gotten sick. Wouldn’t exist. 

Amy: Then there’s the Antipodian Opaleye, which is native to New Zealand but also migrated to Australia. There you go, Lucy. 

Lucy: Woo! Finally. 

Amy: The Antipodean Opaleye lives in valleys, which is unusual because dragons usually prefer mountains. It has shiny scales that are a pearly, iridescent kind of color. 

Lucy: Pretty. 

Amy: It’s considered the least deadly dragon breed when dealing with humans, but it’s still kind of threatening. Wouldn’t want to come across it.

Lucy: Aren’t they all deadly? Like, I wouldn’t suspect any dragon not to be deadly. 

Amy: Yeah. I’m just guessing because, like, humans aren’t in its normal diet. 

Sidney: I will say, it’s really nice to hear for once that Australia has the least threatening wildlife in one area? At least you have the least scary dragons, but I mean, you still have crocodiles to put up with, so…

Stephanie: You have the least terrifying fictional creature, but your actual creatures are worse than that. 

Amy: But you could still die from snakes, bugs, spiders…

Lucy: Yeah, I think it was like, out of the top ten most deadly animals, we have seven of them? And they’re native as well? [Laughter] 

Stephanie: Nope. I’m good. Nope.

Lucy: Come to Australia! You’ll be fine! 

Amy: Sorry Lucy, never coming to visit. [Laughter] 

Sidney: Come to the US; you probably won’t see an alligator. Probably. 

Amy: We don’t even know where crocodiles live. You’ll be fine! [Laughter] 

Amy: Then there’s the Romanian Longhorn, which is one of the largest Harry Potter dragons at forty feet long. It’s endangered due to hunting them for their long golden horns, which are used as potion ingredients. 

Stephanie: Poor dragon. 

Amy: The Ukrainian Ironbelly is the largest dragon in the wizarding world. I don’t have a measurement for it, but it is apparently the largest, so it’s…more than forty feet. [Laughter] It has metallic gray scales that are as hard as steel – or iron, hence the name. And Newt Scamander worked with these during World War I on the Eastern Front. 

Amy: And then the last one that I have here is the Hebridean Black, which appears in Hogwarts Legacy. So it’s not from Fantastic Beasts the book or anything like that, but it is in Hogwarts Legacy, and it is native to Great Britain, specifically near Hogwarts Castle. 

Lucy: That’s reassuring. 

Stephanie: You have to go on a mission to A, rescue one, and then B, return the egg that poacher stole. So you get very up close and personal with the Hebridean Black in Hogwarts Legacy. 

Sidney: Yeah, I’m just going to circle back to an earlier conversation. Once again, Hogwarts seems like a really dangerous place to be? They live in a place that has a unique dragon type that doesn’t live anywhere else in the world, and they’re like, “This is the best place to put a school for children.”

Stephanie: “Here, let’s take all of Britain’s future and other areas in this vicinity and put them all in one place to die!”

Lucy: Yeah, and if one of these dragons started the Great Fire of London, it’s like, “Can it burn Hogwarts to the ground? Most likely.” Why are we near this?

Sidney: It’s probably a really good thing for Hogwarts that the British wizarding legal system seems to not do lawsuits?

Lucy: Very good. 

Amy: Yeah. This is true.

Lucy: Yeah, imagine. Imagine if Lucius could do that. Everyone would be screwed. 

Stephanie: Everyone would be getting sued. 

Amy: Maybe when you send your kid to Hogwarts, you sign off and you’re just like, “Yeah, whatever happens, happens.”

Lucy: A waiver! It’s like, “You could die. You’ll be fine. Off you go.”

Amy: “They could die. Whatever! I’ll sign.” [Laughter] 

Sidney: “By all means, let him face down a dragon whose fire is hot enough to incinerate him.”

Amy: “It’s all good, we’re overpopulated anyway. I’ll sign wherever you want me to.” [Laughter] 

Lucy: We need to do a bonus episode on just animals at Hogwarts and how much they can kill you. [Laughter] Because I’m already thinking of a heap, and like, these are just from book one. That kid was eleven! The safety at Hogwarts… 

Stephanie: Add it to the network. [Laughter] 

Amy: Yes. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: Do we know what the dragon referenced in “Never Tickle a Sleeping Dragon” is? Or do we just know that we should leave all sleeping dragons alone, don’t tickle any? 

Sidney: I’m going to assume it’s a Hebridean Black? That would make sense since they’re the local ones to Hogwarts, but who knows? 

Amy: I think it applies to all. 

Stephanie: [Laughing] It’s relatively standard advice? [Laughter] 

Sidney: Yeah, good advice. 

Amy: “Don’t tickle a Hebridean Black, but go ahead and tickle a Horntail. It’ll be fine, I promise.” [Laughter] 

Stephanie: And then, I have this issue with lots of different animals, but like, obviously all of these dragons are very different from each other, and they have different personalities and all of that, so why is it just generalized as “a dragon” and not specified? Do you think that it’s just generalized for easier description, and people could technically produce – and they could tell by the shape that the corporeal Patronus takes? Or do you think it’s just like, “Generic dragon, go?”

Sidney: Yeah, so you’re asking, “Why does the Patronus test not have specific types of dragons? Since we know all this information about all these different types of dragons, why does it just say ‘dragon?”’ And I’m going to guess that the answer to that question is, it sounds like a lot of work to add however many different types of dragons? Someone fact-check me on this – one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten different kinds of dragons. “That’s a lot of work! Let’s just say dragon, because you know, dragons are dragons, right? There’s no difference. It’s a dragon! No one’s gonna call us out on that, for sure!”

Amy: I would assume if you can make a dragon Patronus, it would just take the shape of whatever dragon makes sense for you. So maybe if you’re a wizard from Whales, it makes sense that your dragon Patronus is the Common Welsh Green, or…you know, however that would manifest. 

Stephanie: There’s like, 140 freaking animals already on this list. If you’re already going to commit to – I looked it up – you’re already going to commit to 140, just keep going. You’re already in there. 

Lucy: Yeah. Because this comes up a lot in for a lot of different animals, why we classify them either by the color or just generalization. And I reckon in the actual wizarding world, you would be able to tell what they are by how they come out? Especially with dragons, it has some pretty distinct features. Some of them, like the Horntail, it’s like, obviously, it’s a Horntail. But yeah, because what is the normal generalization of a dragon? Everybody will have a different depiction of what culture you come from as well. Like we said, the Chinese don’t have wings!

Sidney: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. And I think that I need an answer to it, because someone with a Peruvian Vipertooth as their Patronus, I would definitely get a vibe just from what I know about the Peruvian Vipertooth dragon that I kind of have an idea of what that might say about them? And someone with a Hungarian Horntail for a Patronus, I would have a completely separate view of that person. 

Lucy: I’m just gonna say it now, plot-hole! [Laughter] 

Amy: Do you think that it’s because the quiz has no way really of knowing where in the world you’re from? That maybe it was just like, “Oh, we’ll just say dragon instead of trying to be like, oh, Hungarian Horntail, but you’re from this other part of the world where-”

Stephanie: How easy would it be to just add one of those drop-downs to pick a country, or…pick a freaking continent!

Sidney: I have a problem with that, because if your Patronus can only be an animal that lives in your part of the world, then that causes even more issues – hang on a second – like, horses aren’t native to North America. [Laughter] 

Lucy: Yeah, because that would be a problem for lots of expats who lived in one place but now call another place home. What are you going to do there? 

Amy: Right.

Lucy: I think it’s definitely more for personality, but I reckon someone just got lazy and was like, “I can’t be bothered writing down all ten. Dragon.”

Amy: “Dragon.” [Laughter] 

Stephanie: What do all of you out there think about that? Why do you guys think that it’s not specified? Comment below or send us an email. 

Lucy: Which dragon will you be? 

Sidney: What is your favorite dragon? 

Lucy: Ooh. So many options. You choose. Choose your own adventure. 

Sidney: Okay, one more question that I have is, does this have anything at all to do with wand cores? You know, I’m sure that we will talk about this again later on in the show with different magical creatures, but dragon is the first animal we’ve talked about on this Patronus that can also be a wand core. You know, lots and lots of characters have dragon heartstring wand cores. It’s one of the three wand cores that Ollivander works with. So most of the people in the Harry Potter series have one of these three wand cores, and dragon heartstring is really…pretty common. So would someone with a dragon Patronus necessarily have a dragon wand core? Because both of those are kind of… wand core and Patronus are both a lot to do with what kind of person you are, and they both say something about your character or what you’re doing with yourself or your priorities. So what do you think that they might have to do with each other? 

Stephanie: Mental note for future Stephanie: this would be a really great bonus episode for our Patreons. So note that down when you’re going back and listening for show notes. [Laughter] 

Amy: I don’t know. I don’t know if they are related or not, because like you said, dragon heartstring’s a pretty common wand core, but yet, dragon Patronuses are pretty rare. So I don’t know. 

Stephanie: I wonder if it has to be the perfect storm. Like, your personality has to match the heartstring of the dragon in your wand, and if there’s all of these different types, that doesn’t mean you necessarily get it. Yeah.

Amy: I mean, Harry’s wand core is a phoenix feather, but his Patronus is not a phoenix. So I don’t know. 

Sidney: Dumbledore’s wand core – his original wand – is a phoenix feather, and his Patronus is. So I would think that someone with a dragon Patronus should have a dragon heartstring wand, and someone with a phoenix Patronus should have a Phoenix tailfeather wand, but not necessarily the other way around, because these Patronuses are so rare. 

Amy: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Lucy: Yeah, and considering the Patronus tells a lot about your personality. I reckon the wand core would as well. But then again, I was look into Draco’s wand, because Draco does mean “dragon.” I was just like, “Maybe he is a dragon?” But no, his wand core is a unicorn. Is that foreshadowing what his future is? Because unicorns are very pure.

Amy: Interesting. 

Sidney: Yeah, it’s just food for thought. Something that I need answers to and need other people to weigh in on. [Laughter] So if you have any idea, any thoughts on this, let me know. 

Lucy: Yeah, and we’ll do a bonus episode over on our Patreon! Okay. Now on to exciting segment…

Lucy & Stephanie: Whose Patronus is it anyway? [Laughter] 

[Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out on Whose Patronus is it anyway?]

Stephanie: Alright, so as soon as I read the title, before I put anything else in these notes, I literally…copied and pasted, and then I went down, wrote the title of the segment, and then in all capital letters, “KRUM.”

Lucy: No, you gotta say it like, [harshly] “Krum!” [Laughter] 

Amy: “Krum!” He’s like, screaming. 

Stephanie: …And I don’t think this just because of his wand core. I feel like, as a person… The wand core is fitting to be dragon heartstring, and I feel like he would have this Patronus as well, because the list listed above, where dragons act by their own set of rules and act pretty quickly, Krum really doesn’t give any crap. They’re fierce fighters. Even though he had a little bit of an issue toward the end of the Triwizard Tournament, he still competed and fought his way through two full tasks, which he may or may not have gotten some of the credit he deserved. Different spiel, I’ll save that for a different podcast. 

He doesn’t back down, he takes everything as a challenge head-on, and he’s assertive and ambitious. He is the youngest professional quidditch player in, I think ever, but if not, a really long time. And… If that’s not ambitious…Thank you. [Whispering] It’s been a while. 

[Transcriber’s note: while the books do tell us that Viktor Krum is both one of the best Seekers in the world and extremely young to be playing at a national level, we aren’t sure exactly how he measures up to others; he might be the youngest professional player on record, but we just don’t know.]

Lucy: I like it. [Laughter] 

Amy: When you say “assertive,” I immediately think of how we pulled Harry aside into the Forbidden Forest to be like, “Are you with Hermione? I’m going to confront you right now.” [Laughter] 

Lucy: And then find a basically dead person, yeah. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: But he knows what he wants and he goes after it. He literally is a dragon in human form, and…cannot convince me otherwise. 

Lucy: But he’s also been a shark in human form. 

Stephanie: But he chose that. 

Amy: Shark Patronus. 

Stephanie: I feel like a dragon chose him, you know? He didn’t choose the dragon, the dragon chose him. [Laughter] 

Sidney: Well, which one would he be? If he did have a dragon Patronus, which one?

Lucy: Which one did he fight? 

Sidney: Romanian Longhorn is easy because Romania – he lives in that direction, right? Am I wrong? Fact-check me! Help me! [Laughter] I have no faith in myself. [Laughter] 

Lucy: Isn’t he from Bulgaria?

Amy: Yes. Yeah.

Stephanie: “The Bulgarian bon-bon, Victor Krum!”

[Transcriber’s note: Bulgaria and Romania are neighboring countries in Southeastern Europe. Romania’s Southern border spans the full length of Bulgaria’s Northern border.]

Sidney: He plays for Bulgaria, but… They’re not really sure where Durmstrang is, and they think it’s not in Bulgaria, it’s just kind of…up that direction? 

[Transcriber’s note: Durmstrang’s location is a secret, but it seems clear that it is not in Bulgaria. It is located somewhere in the Northernmost region of Eastern Europe. Viktor Krum, however, is Bulgarian.]

Sidney: He fought against a Chinese Fireball. 

Stephanie: I kind of want to think of him as the Opaleye. Because while he is strong and aggressive and assertive and goes after what he wants, he is also really sweet, as we see in his sides with Hermione and… Him being upfront with Harry, being like, “Hey, I like this chick. Is there a thing? I do not want to step on your toes.” Very honest. I like the idea that he’s big and strong, but also, he’s a little teddy bear. 

Amy: I was thinking maybe the Ukrainian Ironbelly. He seems, I don’t know, just very no-nonsense. Solid, nothing fancy, but functional. [Laughter] If that makes sense. 

Sidney: I also have a suggestion for someone who should have a dragon Patronus, because, let me just say it: if Charlie Weasley’s Patronus is not a dragon, then there is no justice in this world. [Laughter] He deserves it. If anyone deserves it, Charlie Weasley deserves it. Okay? I need him to have a dragon Patronus. 

And I do have thoughts on which one it should be. It could be a Hebridean Black, because again, we’ve talked about localizations, and he lives in that area, so that would just be really nice. 

But also, what would work really well is the Chinese Fireball! Because Charlie Weasley, renowned Gryffindor. And the Chinese Fireball is also called the Liondragon. It’s red and gold. And I just desperately want for him to have the satisfaction of having a red and gold dragon Patronus. 

Amy: And he’s a redhead. [Laughter] 

Sidney: Yeah, and he’s a redhead! This is one of my favorite side characters in the series, and I want this for him. 

Lucy: Well, he didn’t get justice in the movies, so he needs to get justice with the Patronus!

Amy: Yeah!

Sidney: Yes. 

Amy: I could also see the Norwegian Ridgeback, because doesn’t he work with them…?

Lucy: Aw, he works with Norbert!

Amy: Yeah. 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Lucy: Wait, no, it’s a female. It ends up being…

Amy & Lucy: Norberta. 

Stephanie: Noberta! [Laughter] 

Sidney: And he works in Romania.

Lucy: I can just imagine him having a, like, a fleet of them. Like, all of them. 

Sidney: His Patronus is a swarm of dragons. 

Lucy: Yeah. Terrifying. 

Amy: Maybe that’s why it just says “dragon,” because you get all of them. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: Just, on rotation? “I’m tired today. You take it.” [Laughter] 

Amy: Pop, Common Welsh Green. Pop, Chinese Fireball. [Laughter] I mean, they stand for transformation and change, right? They could just keep…switching!

Stephanie: And that’s kind of where I was going to go with Charlie, was… I feel like it would have started as a Hebridean Black, because I feel like he would have found a baby one around Hogwarts and helped it find its mom or took care of it until it was old enough, secretly in the Forbidden Forest, until…

Sidney: You’re so right. I think people pretend that he is “the responsible Weasley,” but look at his siblings. None of them can really be that well-behaved. He definitely snuck out into the Forbidden Forest to take care of animals. 

Stephanie: I feel like if he had first cast it when he was at Hogwarts, it would have been the Heberdean. But as he continued to work with them more and more, and if he worked with a different type, I can completely see it transforming into the one that he either has the best relationship with, or the one he identifies with most, or the one he feels the most akin to at that time. 

Amy: We know that love can change your Patronus, and Charlie…loves his dragons. So… I could see it. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: I could see it as well. I fully support that theory as well. Yeah, I can get behind Charlie!

Sidney: Yeah, one of the most widely accepted theories about Charlie Weasley is that he is sort of the series’s aromantic representation? So I think that his love of dragons is the great romance of his life, and again, if his Patronus is not a dragon, then I just…I don’t trust anything anymore. That’s so unfair. [Laughter] 

Amy: I agree. Charlie’s got my vote. 

Sidney: I’ll go ahead and agree with Krum, too. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Charlie’s the expected dragon. Krum’s a little more… Might have to take a little bit more convincing. [Laughter] 

Lucy: So that’s everything that we have on dragons this week! Next week we’ll be talking about the… 

Stephanie: Calico! 

Lucy: Calico, yes. So on that, you can find us on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook at Expecto Podtronum, and you can also find us on Twitter at ExpectoPod. We also have a Patreon where we do a lot of fun stuff over there, so if you want to support us, please do. And of course, we’d love to hear from you on any of our outlets, including emails, which is expectopodtronum@gmail.com. And don’t forget to leave us a review. So that’s goodbye from me. 

Amy: Goodbye from me!

Sidney: Goodbye!

Stephanie: And remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the Dementors away.

“Food Show” by Music_For_Videos, Anastasia Kir — “Movie Score A” by DHy-Nez, Denita Smith — “Excuse me Cat” by geoffharvey, Geoff Harvey — “The Classical” by Music_For_Videos, Anastasia Kir — “Uplifting Celebration” by makesoundmusic, Mike Kripak — “Mysterious Music: Light Mystical Background Music for Short Video/Vlog” by White Records, Maksym Dudchyk — “Telling the Story” by goeffharvey, Geoff Harvey