Stephanie: Hello, and welcome to episode five of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. I’m your host Stephanie. 

Amy: I’m Amy. 

Lucy: I’m Lucy. 

Carolyn: I’m Carolyn. And today we’re talking about the swallow. 

Stephanie: Birb! 

Amy: Another bird. 

Stephanie: Birb! Birds!

Carolyn: Tweet tweet. Tweet tweet. 

Stephanie: My head just went, “Tweet motherf-[censored].” [Laughter] I don’t know why that’s what my brain wanted to say, but that is exactly what my brain wanted to say. 

Carolyn: It’s alright, get it out now. 

Stephanie: Tweet tweet, motherf-[censored] [laughter].

Stephanie: Okay. So the swallow is actually a type of perching bird family. It is not one specific bird. Their body lengths range from about four to nine-and-a-half inches, so that’s ten to twenty-four centimeters. And they weigh… 0.35 to two ounces, which is about ten to sixty grams. [In a babytalk voice] So, they’re bitty. They’re bitty. Bitty birbs.

Amy: Bitty, bitty little tiny. 

Stephanie: Itty bitty living space. [Laughter] …There’s no intrusive thought filter today. They’re just coming out–

Carolyn: You know what? I love–

Stephanie: –and I deeply apologize to my fellow co-hosts and you listeners as well. [Laughter]

Carolyn: That’s what I’m here for, all the random pop culture references. 

Stephanie: There’s literally, I’ve learned, apparently today, this afternoon, there’s no, “That’s an inside thought and stays inside” filter going on in my head. [Laughter] 

Stephanie: Swallows are found all around the world, including Antarctica sometimes. The birds that live in more temperate places migrate come the colder months when all the insects die off, and others who live in warmer climates stay in the same place year-round. 

Carolyn: Having a hard time wrapping my head around a swallow in Antarctica. 

Stephanie: Yeah. It’s just passing through. 

Carolyn: Itty bitty birds, lots of ice. 

Stephanie: They made friends with a penguin. Just a little swallow riding on a penguin’s shoulder. [Laughter]

They are excellent fliers and they use those skills to not only feed, but also attract mates. They eat insects primarily, and they actually catch those insects while they are flying. 

Lucy: That’s a skill. 

Stephanie: Which is amazing. Males actually select the nesting site and then attract a mate using song and flight. I did not find a video–

Lucy: Oh, thank God. 

Stephanie: –of the song. So we do not have to be scarred. 

Carolyn: Patreon exclusives, people. Patreon exclusives.

Stephanie: The videos of us listening to these noises for the first time. It’s something. 

Stephanie: Swallows are monogamous, as well. Once they find their person for that – I think it’s just for the breeding season – they are with that person. They are not like other large birds, who may have a harem. 

Carolyn: Wait, so they mate, and then mating season’s over, and then they don’t? Then they’re good? Is that what I’m understanding? 

Stephanie: I’m not 100% certain. It just says pairs of mated swallows are monogamous. So I don’t know, but it doesn’t specifically state that they mate for life. I usually get…when doing the research, I usually get a distinction if the specific animal mates for life, it usually says that? I was not able to locate that specification. 

Carolyn: So they’re monogamous for now…

Stephanie: So it’s just not a peacock who has a harem, which you’ll hear all about later, listeners. 

Carolyn: So they’re monogamous for now, and then they’re not. 

Stephanie: I think. I think it’s more of a dating situation, where they get into a relationship and they’re good for a while. 

Carolyn: And then they break up?

Stephanie: And then they decide they need to see other people. 

Carolyn: “I need to not see you anymore, dear.”

Lucy: “We’re on a break…”

Stephanie: And then pick a different partner for the next mating season. I don’t know, this is some speculation. 

Carolyn: Eh, someone will email us and tell us how wrong we are for our little tangent on the monogamy of swallows. [Laughter]

Lucy: We just need to have an exclusive episode on Patreon going, “When our audience told us we were wrong.”

Carolyn: That, or we need to get an actual zoologist on speed dial and have a… 

Amy: Yeah. 

Lucy: I don’t know. 

Amy: Season two!

Lucy: We pitched it, but Robert Irwin, if you’re around…

Stephanie: We did!

Carolyn: Maybe David Attenborough’s not busy. 

Lucy: I think Liz pitched it! [Laughter]

Stephanie: Outside of breeding season, some species of the swallow may form large flocks and may roost together. This is suspected because it does provide additional protection from predators. A group of swallows is either called a “flight” or a “sweep.”

Carolyn: Ha! I like the second one. 

Stephanie: Which, kind of just makes me think of a quidditch team. 

Carolyn: A sweep of swallows. 

Stephanie: The swallow is associated with love, happiness, protection, and summer. There’s a Korean folk tale, “Heungbu and Nolbu,” which talks about greed and altruism through mending a swallow’s broken leg. 

Lucy: I thought you said “Pengu,” not “Hengu.” Do you guys remember that little cartoon? Pengu? 

Stephanie: H-E-N-U-G-U, hengu. Which is still probably wrong. [Editor’s note: it is – the correct name is “Heungbu,” pronounced like “hung-buh.”]

Lucy: But still, when you said that I was like, “Pengu the Penguin!” [Laughter] What a throwback. 

Stephanie: …And per sailing superstitions, they are a good omen to see while you’re out at sea, because they are a land-based bird, so seeing a swallow circling around means that you are probably close to shore. 

Stephanie: Take it away, Carolyn, because you got a lot of stuff you found! 

Carolyn: Oh, yes. 

Amy: Ooh! That is a lot.

Lucy: Is this also folklore and stuff? 

Carolyn: This has got some overlap of mythology. There was a lot on swallows. And I noticed that we didn’t have anything on it. Usually, when I’m finding the symbology, I skip over the mythology stuff. But it wasn’t in there yet. So I kind of did a little double-duty today, because I was like, “Oh, I didn’t see any mythology stuff!” 

All right, so in terms of my usual symbology deep dive, woohoo, we have that the Greeks and Romans have stories of gods and goddesses who could transform into swallows. Don’t know which ones off the top of my head, but apparently that was a common occurrence. [Editor’s note: this might be referring to tales of Procne and Philomela, daughters of King Pandion of Athens.]

The direct quote from the article was that “their penchant for beauty: one look at a swallow explains their divine connections.” So I thought that was interesting, that they kind of…

Amy: It’s self-explanatory, apparently?

Carolyn: Apparently it just explains it by looking at them. 

Amy: All you have to do is look at them, ah, yes.

Carolyn: I was like, okay, well, I don’t know how to interpret that other than to just copy it.

Carolyn: The mated swallows represent devotion. Again, got monogamy, but not the kind of for-life monogamy stuff, so I think that’s part of why they kept coming back to the devotion angle with swallows? You’d think they would try to find an animal that you knew mated for life. 

Stephanie: They might mate for life. Like I said, I could be very wrong. 

Carolyn: Yeah. But again, it also didn’t say, and like you said, you usually see “mate for life.” So, I mean, I think we’re making a reasonable educated guess till somebody emails us and tells us how horribly wrong we are. 

They are found to embody good communication, and they are associated with liberty and independence, apparently. There were also a bunch of superstitions about the swallow, which, they did not tell me where these were from. So all I know is that apparently if you make a wish on the first swallow you see of the summer, that wish will come true. And also apparently that when swallows fly high, it means pleasant weather and improved luck. So those were the kind of superstitions that went along with the birds. 

And then we get into the folklore. Native American folk tales associated the swallow with hard work and humility. In Southwestern tribes, the swallow was a bringer of rain or fair weather. In the Hopi tribe, there’s a creation story in which the swallow and the spirit of dew saved the people from starving by bringing them corn seeds. Other Native American traditions recount the barn swallow stealing fire from the sun, burning its tail, and leaving a mark for all eternity. 

Then we get into Celtic tradition, which had a system of divination called the…ohga? Og-ham? [Aside] Sorry, it’s probably…Smith. [Laughter] It means Andrew. I’m saying it completely wrong. [Editor’s note: Ogham is pronounced “oggum.”]

They draw on inspiration from nature’s esoteric storehouse. Revolving around the wisdom of trees, plants, and animals, the swallow has connections with ivy and the symbolism of partnership, and challenging traditional gender roles. 

And then in the Far East, we had two references. One was to Chinese culture, where the swallow represented feminine dignity, loveliness, and marital tenderness. And then in Japanese tradition, the swallow was kind of an emblem of devotion to your family and motherly love. Lots of traditions that connected to different cultures.

Amy: Lots about the swallow!

Carolyn: Probably because it’s everywhere, including Antarctica. Yeah. [Laughter]

Stephanie: And it’s multiple species. A swallow is the family–

Carolyn: That’s true.

Stephanie: –not just one bird. 

Carolyn: So there was a lot to find. [Laughter]

Stephanie: So then, the Patronus game!

[Should this animal really be a guardian? Find out on The Patronus Game.]

Amy: Okay, so you might think, you know, a swallow, they’re just little guys. Could this really be a good Patronus or not? 

I think that it kind of makes sense? Maybe it’s not a super fierce Patronus, but if we’re thinking about the purpose of a Patronus is to fight darkness and despair with light and positivity, the swallow…kind of makes sense. 

It’s often seen as a sign of good fortune, land nearby for sailors, spring is coming, all of that stuff. In Portuguese tradition, swallows are seen as a sign of prosperity, and swallows are loyal and dependable. They return to the same nest year after year. They are monogamous, as we said. 

So I think those are probably the reasons why it’s on this list. I mean, it may not be as obvious as some of the other birds on the list who are birds of prey with talons and sharp beaks and all that, but I could see where it could, you know… It’s got some attributes that make sense. 

Stephanie: And I think it’s important for us to remember that, while yes, the Patronus is a protector, that’s not its sole purpose. It doesn’t have to be aggressive. And I think what you say, Amy, is a really good reminder for us that just because something’s not aggressive does not mean it can’t offer you that light in the darkness or support you in another way. 

Amy: Yeah, a Patronus isn’t necessarily meant to be able to physically attack. It’s combating darkness. It’s not, you know, so as long as it’s got some sort of light quality to it, it can do that. 

Carolyn: Well, and depending on how you see it used… There is this scene in book five where Harry does have his Patronus charge at the Dementors, but he’s using it to protect not only himself but his cousin in that moment. 

Amy: Right. 

Carolyn: And then if you look at book seven, when Umbridge is in the courtroom using the Patronus, cat’s just kind of walking in front of her like a shield and ignoring…because she doesn’t care to protect anyone but herself in that moment. So depending on how you use it, like you said, as long as it’s got the light quality, it can just as easily be acting as a shield, to protect yourself and those right around you. 

Amy: Right. Right.

Lucy: Now I want to know what Umbridge’s happiest memory is. 

Carolyn: Making Harry write, “I must not tell lies.”

Lucy: On no…

Stephanie: I was going to say torturing the children. 

Amy: Absolutely.

Carolyn: Yeah. [Laughter] At least at that moment, I don’t know what it is before that. [Laughter]

Stephanie: I’m gonna bring up a question now that yes, we’ve determined that a swallow, good Patronus. Checkmark, stay on the list. Would it be, especially depending on the skill of the wizard, would it be one swallow? Or would it be a swarm of swallows, like Hermione’s canaries? [Laughter]

Amy: That’d be pretty cool.

Stephanie: Because a swarm of swallows seems- 

Carolyn: Here’s another question though. Would that also depend on the strength of the wizard? 

Stephanie: That was one of the precursors, yeah. I was wondering. 

Carolyn: Maybe Dumbledore, yes, could produce a swarm, but maybe Neville gets only one? Strength of the wizard effects… Although, I don’t wanna downplay Neville. He’s pretty strong too. 

Lucy: This is one of the theories I wish I could test out. Because I want to test it out for you, Steph, along with my other ones. 

Stephanie: Lucy’s got a list. But yeah, I was just…

Amy: I don’t know. 

Lucy: I think it’d be possible, but I want to deep dive into this when I’m writing an article on it, so we’ll see!

Stephanie: Also, am I remembering incorrectly, when McGonagall cast it, was it one or was it three? 

Lucy: Oh! This came up in my research the other day. 

Amy: Oh, she did do multiple!

Lucy: Yeah, she did do three and they went to different… The other three heads of houses. No, two? 

Amy: So you can!

Carolyn: In theory.

Lucy: Yeah. It went to Flickwick and Sprout.

Amy: So you could have multiple of your animal. Interesting.

Stephanie: But then again, it’s McGonagall who is a complete bad-[censored].

Amy: So if your Patronus is a hyena, you could make a pack of hyenas to charge around. That’s pretty cool. 

Carolyn: You could have a murder of crows. 

Amy: You could! Or just a room full of kittens. [Laughter]

Carolyn: That’s why Umbridge can only do one!

Stephanie: That’s another interesting question: would the age of your species depend on the age of you? If when they’re casting it in the first year – not the first year, obviously they can’t cast in the first year – but when we first see them able to, around that book five, depending on the age level, would it be…could it be a younger version? And then as they get older, the Patronus itself ages with them?

Carolyn: But with the lifespan of most animals, does that work? 

Stephanie: I don’t know, does a Dementor work? It just sucks on…sadness. [Laughter]

Carolyn: I’m coming at this from far too logical of a perspective, I guess. 

Stephanie: It’s magic, Carolyn! It’s f-[censored] magic! [Laughter]

Amy: There’s a sticker idea for you. ”It’s effing magic!” 

Stephanie: Logic doesn’t matter! Lifespans don’t matter! Half the people who are wandering around Hogwarts should’ve died because the safety is poor. 

Carolyn: Alright, so I need a doc for sticker ideas in our folder, okay people? Alright? No booping the cats.

Amy: We could even just have a picture of a stuffed animal cat. 

Carolyn: Boop. 

Amy: Yes!

Carolyn: Boop approved. 

Stephanie: Boop approved! I can also see us just, if you take a picture of Amy holding her cat with the thumbs in a drawing form, that says, “BOOP-approved!” [Laughter]

Carolyn: All right, since I’ve successfully derailed the conversation for us all today with boops…

Stephanie: That is completely fine. 

Carolyn: I have a random one for you. 

Stephanie: Whose Patronus is it anyway? 

[Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out on Whose Patronus is it Anyway?]

Carolyn: Alright, so I thought of this while we were talking, and it’s because we said one of the ways to talk about them was as a “sweep” of swallows. But do we think that this could possibly be our fearless quidditch leader’s Patronus? Could this one be Oliver Wood’s? 

Amy: Are you saying sweep because of… a broom?

Carolyn: Sweeping like a broom. [Laughter]

Amy: This is really bad that I got that, Carolyn!

Carolyn: I’m being very literal. It’s a sweep of swallows. 

Amy: Oh no. 

Carolyn: The quidditch connection. They ride brooms. 

Amy: I’m starting to think in Carolyn’s joke form! [Laughter]

Carolyn: Dry and ridiculous. Right here.

Amy: She’s getting in my brain!

Carolyn: Dry and ridiculous, people. 

Stephanie: I mean, technically it says they’re land-based birds, so they’d be close to shore. I don’t know if that means like, I don’t know, because they do fly. I feel like it does make sense that Oliver’s Patronus would–

Carolyn: –be a bird. 

Stephanie: –fly. 

Amy: Yes, definitely. 

Carolyn: Could be a Snidget. Well, no, a Snidget is not a Patronus. 

Lucy: It could be. 

Stephanie: It should be a Patronus. 

Lucy: Should be.

Carolyn: Yeah, but that’s a different conversation.

Amy: I mean, as ridiculous as it is, I’m all for the ridiculous connection of “sweep of swallows,” broomsticks, sweeping. 

Carolyn: That’s what I’m good for! Ridiculous connections.

Amy: We got there. [Laughter]

Stephanie: It does talk about passion. He is very passionate about quidditch. 

Carolyn: We are early in the season, people. 

Stephanie: Good communication. You gotta be a good communicator to run a team like that.

Carolyn: Yup. And they are communicators. There’s other connections in there, but. I made the connection solely off of “sweep.”

Amy: I like it. 

Stephanie: I’m trying to rationalize it. I mean, like I said. 

Carolyn: I appreciate you rationalizing my crazy tangent thoughts, but really, I mean, as you get to know me more throughout the season, people, you will understand: there’s no logic. 

Amy: Add it to the dad joke book. 

Carolyn: Dad joke book, yeah. [Laughter]

Stephanie: I think it’s possible! I think it’s no weirder than some of the other ones we’ve pulled out, that we’ll be pulling out through the rest of the season. 

Lucy: That is true. 

Stephanie: Yeah, I like it. And he casts a whole freaking flock. A whole sweep. 

Carolyn: A whole sweep.

Stephanie: Not just one.

Carolyn: He can cast a sweep of them. 

Stephanie: Whole sweep. At least six. One for each of the quidditch positions he is not. 

Carolyn: Yeah, there you go. I like it. 

Lucy: And I guess on that note that brings us to the end of our episode! You can join us next week when we talk about the dragon. Go dragon! 

Stephanie: [Shouting] Well done, dragon!

Lucy: But before then, you can find us on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook at Expecto Podtronum and on Twitter at Expecto Pod. Please send us any of your theories, if you have questions, if you want to expand on any of our episodes, we’d love to hear from you. Also, if we said any of the words wrong, which we probably have. [Laughter] You can also find us on Patreon where we do a lot of fun stuff over there, bonus episodes, you get the episodes early…Who knows what else is going on over there? We don’t even know at this present time!

Amy: But we really appreciate your support, because it helps us keep the show going. 

Lucy: Yes. Yes, it does.

Amy: If you want to see our show continue for a few seasons, we would welcome the assistance. 

Carolyn: And please review us! 

Lucy: Yes, don’t forget to review us. You can also email us if you don’t want to do anything on social media, that’s completely fine, we’ve got an email. But until next time, that’s goodbye from me. 

Amy: See you later! 

Carolyn: Bye, everybody! 

Stephanie: Bye, guys! And remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the Dementors away.

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