Stephanie: Hello, and welcome to episode four of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. I’m your host Stephanie. 

Amy: I’m Amy. 

Lucy: I’m Lucy. 

Liz: I’m Liz. And today we will be talking about the cutest mammal of the ocean-slash-rivers-slash-seas, the otter!

Amy: I love otters! They’re so cute!

Stephanie: So there are two main classifications of otters for the thirteen or so different species: there are the river otters, and then there are the sea otters. Most [river otters] live in freshwater rivers, lakes, and wetlands, while the sea otters and smaller marine otters are found primarily in the Pacific Ocean. 

Amy: I’ve seen otters in lakes in the Adirondacks. 

Liz: Oh, that’s so fun! 

Stephanie: I just want to pet it.

Amy: They’re so cute.

Liz: There’s no otters in the man-made lakes in Arizona. [Laughter] So I don’t get to see them. 

Amy: Yeah, they’re not exactly desert creatures. [Laughter]

Lucy: You should just make a man-made otter and just put it in there. There you go. 

Stephanie:  [Laughing] Just the one otter floating around?*****

Lucy: Just a little animatronic. 

Amy: Like people put those fake ducks in their ponds? [Laughter] It’s just an otter. [Laughter]

Liz: I feel like someone would steal that real quick. Because who doesn’t want their own otter? 

Stephanie: They can range from two to six feet long and weigh from ten to seventy-five pounds. 

Lucy: I’m sorry, I need to do some translation here. 

Stephanie: Ugh, [censored], I’m sorry.

Liz: It’s a lot.

Amy: Seventy-five pounds is a lot.

Liz: A six-foot-long otter is taller than me.

Amy: Yeah.

Stephanie: Those are more of the seafaring…

Liz: Oh, okay.

Lucy: Ok. That makes sense, the seafaring ones, ‘cause I know I know how big six feet is, and that’s long. 

Stephanie: Yeah, it’s as big as me. 

Lucy: Yeah, so six feet is about 182 centimeters. 

Liz: Oh, wow.

Lucy: And then…ten pounds is about four point five kilos to…thirty-four kilos? That’s heavy. 

Liz: That’s a lot. Well, think about it. If it’s six feet long, swimming in the ocean, it’s probably pure muscle and blubber. 

Stephanie: Yeah. Gotta be…

Lucy: Well, if you just look at a six-foot man or something, it’s like, Jesus Christ. That’s what an otter looks like? [Laughter]

Liz: Lucy!

Lucy: It’s an easy way for me to picture it!

Stephanie: For those of you that have not seen me in person, I am six feet tall. 

Liz: Are you really? 

Stephanie: Yeah. 

Liz: Okay, so I’m just gonna picture you, and an otter standing beside you. 

Lucy: We’ll just have a graphic of Steph and an otter, for comparison. [Laughter]

Liz: [Laughing] Join our Patreon to see it. 

Amy: One of those graphs with the measurements? 

Liz: Shows it–

Amy: “This is how tall I was this year.” It’s Steph and an otter. 

Liz: We can do one, it can show the heights of the hosts and then the heights of the different otters. [Laughter]

Stephanie: That would be great, actually. Yes. 

Lucy: We need to tell Carolyn to make that for us. 

Liz: That needs to be something we drop in the Patreon as a spoiler with no… 

Amy, Liz, Lucy & Stephanie: No context! [Laughter]

Liz: No context.

Lucy: Get ready for next week. 

Liz: Next episode. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Otters have lithe and slender bodies with short legs, strong necks, and a long flattened tail that helps propel them gracefully through the water. Their swimming ability is further enhanced by their four webbed feet. So they actually have webbing on all four of their feet. Their fur color varies in shades of brown, and they commonly have lighter undersides. 

Liz: Cool.

Stephanie: They eat fish, crustaceans, and other little critters, and sea otters have an ingenious method for opening shellfish. This is a lot of the pictures that you see of an otter swimming on its back with a little rock on its stomach, and then they beat the shellfish on the rock on their chest until it opens and they can eat their dinner. 

Lucy: Aw, I just love seeing them on their back, the ones that are in captivity, and they just give them little play toys and they’re just like, “Ooh yay, yay, yay!”

Stephanie: Like the ones with little stuffies? You just see them swimming around with a little stuffy in their arms?

Liz: And then, just whenever they hold the little paws and float through the water together, I’m like, “Aw you guys are so cute! I wish I could do that.”

Stephanie: That’s usually sea otters. They entangle themselves and hold hands when they nap or attach themselves to kelp so they don’t float away from each other while they’re napping. 

Lucy: That makes sense, ‘cause who–

Liz: I need someone to do that. 

Lucy: Yeah, because no one wants to wake up in the middle of the ocean by themselves. 

Liz: I mean…

Stephanie: I don’t think anybody wants to wake up in the middle of the ocean, even with other people. 

Liz: Yeah. If I somehow wake up in the ocean unexpectedly, I’m going to be really confused. [Laughter] And scared. [Laughter]

Stephanie: [Laughing] Very scared. 

Liz: [Laughing] I’m going to be scared. 

Stephanie: Baby otters are called pups or kittens, and they stay with their mother either until they’re about a year old or she has another litter. Litter sizes range from one pup to five.

Lucy: Wow.

Stephanie: And I really like this fact: they learn to swim around two months old when their mom just pushes them into the water. 

Lucy: Good luck! See if you swim!

Stephanie: Here you go, kid! Figure it out! 

Liz: I mean, isn’t that becoming… That’s a trend to do with human babies.

Stephanie: That is how I taught a five-year-old how to ride their bike one time. I grabbed her handlebars, grabbed the back of her seat, and I flung her and I said “Go!” Because she wasn’t getting it any of the other ways. [Laughter] She got it. 

Liz: Sometimes you just have to let them fall over a couple of times. 

Lucy: Now I’ve just got the meme – the video – in my head with the cat pushing the kitten down the stairs because it’s like, “You’re not going, we’ll just send it.” [Laughter] It was really patient for the first couple of minutes, and then it’s like, “I want to go and get my dinner. Off you go.”

Stephanie: I feel like when done right, I feel like that’s fine parenting. 

Amy: Yeah, teaches survival skills, you know?

Liz: Maybe… I don’t know. 

Stephanie: Spoiler alert, I am not a parent. 

Amy: I was just going to say, this is why I don’t have children. [Laughter]

Liz: I mean, to be fair, the survival skill I was taught by my parent was like, “If there’s an apocalypse, make sure to get anything with silver and gold because that’ll be trading currency.” And he’d have me fill – you know those little mini coke bottles? – fill those with sugar and salt because that would also be currency. I have yet to use that life skill. So… 

Amy: You never know! [Laughter]

Stephanie: You’re set.

Liz: I don’t think I’m going to use it anytime soon. 

Lucy: Well it’s a pro tip, as soon as the apocalypse happens, go to the supermarket and stock up! 

Liz: I think I’m running away from the supermarket, because that’s where everyone’s going to be. 

Stephanie: Otters don’t have very many enemies out in the wild, so they really don’t have any reason to be afraid. They have no reservations about following their curiosity. So they’re very fearless, they’re extremely playful and curious, and they can be symbolic of life and purification. 

Liz: Nice.

Lucy: Aw. So everybody loves them out in the wild. They’re just friends with everybody. 

Stephanie: That’s exactly what I was going to say!

Liz: How do they not get eaten? Well, I guess the freshwater ones, they’re probably some of the largest animals around, especially in the water. And in the ocean, well, I guess if a shark gets them, a shark gets them. 

Lucy: No, they’re friends with that shark. They just swim by and go, “Hey, Barry, how are you today? Good? Okay.”

Liz: Otters are friends, not food. 

Stephanie: Who’s Barry? 

Amy: Lots of folklore and myths having to do with otters in different cultures around the world. In some cultures, otters are thought of as a protector or a guardian for other animals living in its watery habitat. which makes sense. If they’re friends with everybody, you know, they’re gonna make sure everybody’s safe. 

Indigenous Alaskan people have a tale involving an otter, and in this legend, I’m not gonna be able to say this name, Natselane? I don’t know. Anyway, he’s a young warrior and is next in line to become chief. His jealous brothers throw him overboard while they’re at sea, but he’s rescued by an otter who guides him to safety at a nearby island and teaches him survival skills. 

Liz: Aww! That’s kind of cute. 

Stephanie: That’s cute. 

Amy: A Scottish tradition tells tales of otter kings who were accompanied by their court of seven black otters. When captured, the otter king would grant a wish in exchange for freedom, which is interesting. 

An old Anglo-Saxon name for the otter is “water snake,” which is due to otters often traveling as a family unit in a single-file line. And it’s actually thought that many supposed Loch Ness Monster sightings can be attributed to otters, which is awesome. [Laughter] That’s my favorite otter fact now. 

Liz: I love that.

Lucy: I love that.

Stephanie: Is it Nessie, or is it a line of otters? [Laughter]

Liz: Another spoiler no context, just a picture of otters making a Loch Ness Monster. 

Amy: It could be a picture of the Loch Ness Monster looking at them, and then the little line of otters…

Lucy: Yeah. 

Amy: That’d be so cute. 

Amy: The Celtic people actually had a thing for otters, apparently. Lots of stories and myths. Lots of them have otters saving drowning sailors, bringing food to marooned sailors, and – this is one of my favorites – warming the feet of Saint Cuthbert as he stood in the sea. Saint Cuthbert is apparently the patron saint of otters. 

Lucy: Cool. 

Stephanie: Who knew?

Liz: How do I become the patron saint of otters? 

Amy: Right? That seems like a cool job. 

Liz: How do I, where do I apply? [Laughter] I love that. 

[Does this Patronus fit the character it belongs to? Find out on The Patronus is Right.] 

Liz: Well, we do know someone in the Wizarding World that has an otter Patronus, and it’s the one and only Hermione Granger. Spirit fingers? I don’t know. I don’t know what I was going for there. But I think it actually matches up really well when we think about her curiosity for the Wizarding World? And you can be like, yeah, okay, she’s curious, but she is literally so eager to learn things, she had to get a Time-Turner to take all the classes. If that doesn’t give otter-level curiosity, I don’t know what does. 

Lucy: No, I think that just gives, um, student safety at Hogwarts is not great. 

Liz: Yeah, which – I have that note here – which is a whole other thing that we should probably talk about, but this isn’t the podcast to talk about giving teenagers things they can use to alter time… 

Lucy: Which they ended up doing. 

Liz: Yeah! I genuinely don’t know how that got approved by the Ministry of Magic, but, you know, whatever. They have a lot of issues, they’re not a very functional government. So that’s okay. 

Liz: She definitely doesn’t have reservations about following the curiosity, right? What I was thinking of specifically with that was, she goes after the troll, both as a prove yourself moment, but let’s be real, that’s fueled by curiosity to see if she could actually do it. Because that’s what I’d be doing. [Laughter] And–

Lucy: Wait, wait, wait, am I just thinking of the whole book wrong? She didn’t go after the troll. The troll found her. Was that the film?

Liz: Why do I think she went after the troll? Well… 

Stephanie: Because that’s the lie she tells McGonagall. 

Liz: Oh… Well. Scratch that, then.

Stephanie: Harry and Ron locked the troll in the bathroom with her. 

Liz: Well, that’s rude. She probably could have taken on that troll, though. [Laughter] Can you tell it’s been a while since I’ve read the books? Well… Since that’s how I remember it, I’m going to deem it real life. So. [Laughter]

Lucy: It’s canon now.

Amy: It’s totally how that works. 

Liz: It’s Liz Canon. [Laughter]

Liz: Regardless, she’s a very curious person, yeah. And then the method to open shellfish, that’s literally every fun little tricky thing Hermione does. Like the coins for Dumbledore’s Army, or the fun charm on her bag. 

Lucy: The one the one charm I wish they had in the film was the fire they had. Yeah.

Liz: Right? All of that’s giving “I found a cute way to open shellfish,” in my opinion. 

Amy: Well, also, if you think about it, how important her friends and inner circle are to her. You know, that affection that’s between otters and that association with friendship and loved ones, all of that really makes sense and connects back to Hermione, too. 

Liz: It does, it does. Also, you know, I feel like somewhere in the world there’s a patron saint to Hermione Granger. You know? 

Stephanie: Could be Saint Cuthbert.

Amy: [Laughing] The patron saint of Hermione Granger? [Laughter]

Liz: She’s a member of the Golden Trio. She’s arguably the brains of the Golden Trio. Someone out there is like… I think that’s a fanfic I read one time, where she meets some teenage kid that’s like, “I had to write an essay about-” in like, history of magic “-who my hero is in the Wizarding World, and I wrote about you. Here’s a copy.” And she’s like, “Oh…thanks.”

Lucy: So now it’s time for Patronus Feud! Woo!

Liz: [dramatic sound effects]

[Can this Patronus defend its status against today’s challenger? Find out on Patronus Feud!]

Lucy: As far as we are aware, there are no Australian animals in the list, which is quite surprising, honestly. We have some quite iconic animals down here, like the kangaroo, the koala… Who wouldn’t want one of those as your Patronus? Plus, 80% of our animals can only be found in Australia, which is very unique. So, I thought…The platypus should be one, that’s pretty close to the otter. They do live alone, but they do like to share water with other platypuses. Or platypi. I don’t know. [Laughter]

Stephanie: I think platypi just sounds funnier.

Lucy: That’s one of those like, is it octopus or octopi? 

Liz: Well, so for octopus it’s octopuses or octoploid. 

Lucy: Ploid? Platyploid?

Liz: Yeah. It depends on the root origin or whatever of the word, whether it’s Latin or Greek. 

Lucy: Yeah, so the platypus honors representing your unique self, because they are a very unique animal.

Amy: They’re so cute.

Lucy: You need to look up what a platypus looks like, but it’s basically a duck beak, weird, I guess sort of like an otter body?

Liz: Yeah. 

Lucy: And they can go both on land and off land, and they just chill. And they also lay eggs. 

Liz: And they have a tail!

Lucy: Yeah, and they have a tail. They have like, a beaver tail!

Liz: Yeah. You know, most American children are introduced to a platypus through the iconic animated series Phineas and Ferb. 

Stephanie: I was literally just thinking, “A platypus? Perry the Platypus!?” In my head.

Liz: Perry the Platypus! They’re sadly not blue in real life, though. [Laughter]

Lucy: I wish they were. 

Liz: I could be down for a platypus as a Patronus. I think that’d be super cool, watching it hit back a dementor with its tail?

Amy: Yeah. Definitely.

Liz: Is that something they do? Or am I making that up? 

Stephanie: I don’t know if they do, but they could?

Amy: The Patronus form could.

Lucy: Oh, love that. 

Liz: Do they hit things with their tails? 

Lucy: I’m not entirely sure. I think I’ve only ever…They also, I’m pretty sure, are dangerous, so you can only really see platypuses in the zoos. But they are out there, they’re just very hard to find. 

Liz: They’re so cute. I love them. They’re little monotremes!

Lucy: And like every Australian animal, they have an indigenous story attached to them, which are called the Dreamtime stories, which are a very cool part of the indigenous culture here. They’ll probably put up a picture of it, but the Dreamtime stories are told in picture form and dance, and the sound of each animal is played on the didgeridoo. So each animal has a unique sound. It’s very cool. I’ll see if I can find a video or something that we can link. 

Liz: When you say “unique sound,” is it a specific note, or do they get a little tune?

Lucy: They get a tune. That I’m aware of. If anybody is Indigenous Australian or Aboriginal, please let us know if I’m wrong. I love learning about the history of it. And they do these amazing paintings called…there’s probably a proper word for them, but dot paintings? And they tell a whole story within them. So if you go to that link that I just sent you, there’s the picture of the platypus. I’m assuming that tells a unique story, just the way it’s drawn. 

Stephanie: That’s so cool. 

Amy: That’s very cool. 

Lucy: So yeah, in Dreamtime, the creatures of the earth are the most important thing. They are sacred. So there’s a lot of really cool stories that I’ve learned growing up about how some of the animals came to be and their importance in the culture. And Australia has… it’s also very unique because I think we have one of the largest… We have over 200 different Indigenous and Aboriginal cultures…or like, 300. There’s so many different tribes and stuff here, and every tribe is different as well. So this Dreamtime story that I put in the doc could be very different to one that’s over on the other side of Australia, but they all connect. So that’s why we don’t really have… That’s why we call it “Aboriginals and Indigenous,” because we don’t really have one. We have so many. 

Liz: This is so cool.

Stephanie: I know. I feel like I’m going to go down a spiral.

Lucy: I’m hoping to put a couple more cool Australian animals in later episodes and how they relate to our Dreamtime stories and stuff like that in the Dreamtime history. It’s really cool, if you want to spend a lot more time looking it up. Maybe we do a whole episode on these cultures and animals. 

Amy: Yeah. Oh, great Patreon content.

Stephanie: I was thinking, bonus episode!

Lucy: Yeah, so if you guys have any native animals or you’re indigenous or Aboriginal in your culture and these animals relate somehow in your amazing stories and stuff like that, please send them to us because we love to learn. 

Liz: Yes, please.

Lucy: Because we only really get told what is around us. And sometimes these indigenous cultures in other parts of the world get lost? I’d love to learn more. 

Amy: So it’s kind of funny you put the platypus because… When I was a kid and I was canoeing one time, I was absolutely convinced that I saw a platypus swim underneath the boat. My parents had to explain to me–

Lucy: And we know you haven’t been to Australia. 

Amy: Yes, they had to explain to me that there were no platypus in New York. And that’s when I came to the conclusion that I saw a beaver. [Laughter] But my mind went, “Platypus!”

Liz: You really wanted it–

Amy: I just saw the tail. So the beaver is one that I actually put down for this because similar to otters, their association with the purifying qualities of water really makes them very important to native culture in North America. Similar to the platypus, you know, there’s so many stories about them woven through indigenous culture here. And it’s just very interesting. 

They also represent hard work and community cooperation, which, you know, if you’ve ever heard that “you’ve been a busy beaver,”  that’s why, because they’re always busy. They’re always building something. It seems like an animal that would be kind of an obvious one to put on a list like this, when we’re talking about personal traits and things like that for wizards. 

Liz: I didn’t think that much about my addition to this list. I looked at cute Australian animals that would match the cuteness level of an otter, and I decided on a quokka. [Laughter]

Amy: Very thought out. [Laughter] Aww, it’s cute!

Liz: I was like, “What cute Australian animals could there be? A uokka.” I don’t think they’re very aquatic, but they give me the same vibes as an otter. [Laughter]

Lucy: I had to look it up because I’m like, “Is that the animal that I’m thinking of?” And I was like, “Yeah it is.” And there’s a photo of a quokka having its hands out like this to the camera and just smiling. 

Liz: They’re so cute.

Amy: There’s one where it’s like this and its cheeks are like… [Laughter]

Liz: Yeah! They feel like… They just give me the same vibe. And if you’re looking for fun Australian animals, but maybe some that aren’t as well known, I feel like this should be on the list. I mean, they’re so cute.

Lucy: We should just do a whole bonus episode on all the Australian animals that should be on the list. There’s a lot, honestly. 

Liz: I agree. I’m pretty sure Robert Irwin, on his TikTok, has cute videos of him with a quokka. 

Lucy: We should try and get him on the podcast just to talk about Australian animals. 

Liz: You know what’s fun is, he might actually do it. Does someone have an in? 

Stephanie: No. 

Lucy: It shouldn’t be that hard just to DM him. 

Amy: We can always try, why not? Shoot your shot.

Lucy: Why not?

Stephanie: Shoot our shot.

Liz: See, the cute picture with its little hands out, it’s like it’s reaching to hold my hand like an otter!

Stephanie: It wants a hug!

Liz: Oh my gosh, there’s a picture of it jumping. Aw, that’s cute. 

Lucy: So guys, look out for that bonus episode, we might have Robert Irwin in on here eventually. Who knows? [Laughter]

Amy: So random.

Liz: It’s a really big “if.” [Laughter]

Lucy: Hey, the worst that could happen is he says no and he just ghosts us. 

Amy: Or, he doesn’t say anything. 

Liz: Yeah, I think the worst is that he just ghosts us from the get-go. [Laughter]

Amy: I have a lot of experience with being totally ghosted by celebs from my time trying to get guests on SpeakBeasty. [Laughing] So I’ll take the shot. It’s fine.

Lucy: Imagine the pitch. It’s like… “Yo, we’ve got a podcast that’s about animals, but it’s about animals that are Patronus, mythical…myths.” [Laughter]

Amy: “…But we see you really like Australian animals, so you can totally see how the two are related? Come on our show.”

Lucy: “Yeah, and there’s no Australian animals on this list, so we want to see what you’re…” [Laughter] 

Liz: We want to hear your thoughts!

Lucy: And who knows, he might be a Harry Potter fan!

Stephanie: He might.

Amy: You never know.

Liz: That’s true. Let me do some quick googling… 

Stephanie: “Does Robert Irwin like Harry Potter?”

Liz: Robert Irwin, Harry Potter fan…Let’s see what my Google brings up.

Lucy: Robert, if you listen to this, we’re sorry. [Laughter]

Liz: Yes, because we’re getting him to listen.

Amy: We just send him this–

Stephanie: Especially in episode four. 

Liz: I don’t think we’re… I’m not finding anything, but there is a lot of how, whenever people look at Murphy from the Hogwarts Mystery game, all they see is Robert Irwin. 

Amy: There’s our connection right there. That’s our in. We’re going to use it. [Laughter] “Have you ever been told that you look like Murphy?”

Lucy: [pretending to be Robert Irwin] “Who’s Murphy?”

Amy: “By the way, we’ve got a podcast: animals, creatures, Australia…” It works.

Stephanie: Magic…

Liz & Lucy: Magic. [Laughter]

Amy: See how I got there? 

Lucy: Yeah, so Patreon, look out, you might get a random episode at one point. 

Stephanie: Patreon, you’re gonna have a lot of random episodes, but this one might be a random episode with a special guest. 

Liz: If there’s Australian animals you want us to talk about in this episode, let us know!

Lucy: Speaking of Patreon, we do have a Patreon and we’d love your support. Please head over there if you can support us. We’ll be very grateful. You can also find us on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook at expectopodtronum, and we’re on Twitter – or, people these days call it X – at expectopod. And we also would love to hear from you guys on any of our social platforms, or you can just email us at expectopodtronum@gmail.com. All these will be in the show notes below, and don’t forget to leave us a review. That’s everything from me, so I’ll say goodbye!

Amy: See you later!

Liz: Bye!

Stephanie: And remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the Dementors away.

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