Stephanie: Hello, and welcome to episode three of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. I’m your host Stephanie. 

Amy: I’m Amy. 

Lucy: I’m Lucy. 

Carolyn: And I’m Carolyn. And today we’re talking about…beagles. 

Amy: Yay! Not bagels. 

Carolyn: Not bagels. [Laughter]

Stephanie: No matter how many times we may accidentally say bagel–

Carolyn: That would be interesting–

Stephanie: –not talking about those. 

Carolyn: That would be a very interesting Patronus though, don’t you think, if it came out as food?

Amy: A bagel? [Laughter]

Carolyn: The ultimate comfort and protection!

Lucy: Imagine being in the Battle of Hogwarts, and you just go, “Expecto Patronum,” and it’s just a bagel! [Laughter]

Carolyn: Bagel pops out!

Stephanie: Flying bagel–

Carolyn: It’s my comfort food!

Amy: The bagel just hits the Dementor in the head?

Carolyn: Pick it up and throw it at the Dementor. 

Stephanie: Food is my comfort, okay? 

Carolyn: I mean, [censored], you’re supposed to eat chocolate for Dementors…

Amy: Chocolate chip bagel. Perfect. 

Lucy: Guys, we’re only one minute in and we’re already just done. [Laughter]

Carolyn: No, This is fun intro stuff. Instead of just diving right in. 

Amy: This is very productive. What are you talking about? 

Carolyn: This is genius. 

Lucy: Okay then, what’s your go-to bagel? Like, toppings? 

Stephanie: I’m just plain cream cheese. 

Amy: I like a good veggie cream cheese. 

Lucy: Mmm. I do love that. A salmon. Smoked salmon. 

Amy: Ooh, cranberry cream cheese is really good. 

Stephanie: Ooh. Never had that. 

Lucy: Now we all go out and grab our bagels and then we’ll just post a picture of them. Yes. That’s the episode, done. See you guys next week. 

Carolyn: That’s the social media for the episode. We’ll just have a graphic with a bagel. Nobody will understand what it is for that week. 

Lucy: Welcome to episode three: bagels. 

Carolyn: Bagels. 

Lucy: We’ve done a 180 and we’re not doing Patronuses anymore, we’re doing food. 

Amy: Well if we haven’t lost you yet, Steph, tell us about beagles. 

Stephanie: I was about to go, “Patronusdy!” And like, jazz hands. No, no one can see them. [Laughter] Beagles are loving and lovable, happy and companionable. They are bred to hunt in packs, so they very much enjoy company and are more easygoing than some of the other dog breeds. 

Lucy: Are beagles the ones that you see in the traditional British huntings? 

Carolyn: Yes, I think?

Amy: A lot of the time, yes. 

Lucy: Oh, they are gorgeous.

Amy: Yeah. They’re so cute…

Lucy: I love seeing them all just behind the horses and you’re just like, ‘God, they’re well trained.’

Amy: I love beagles! Well, well-trained until they catch a whiff of something, and then they’re just out of there–

Lucy: See ya!

Amy: –and don’t come back for days. 

Stephanie: But that’s their job, yeah. 

Amy: But they’re so cute.

Lucy: Well they’re more- They’re well-trained. They’re more well-trained than my dog, so… That’s saying something. 

Carolyn: I always think of the animated hunting scene from Mary Poppins. 

Lucy: Oh, yeah. What a great movie that was. 

Stephanie: I don’t know why I thought that was a bloodhound.

Carolyn: It’s a classic.

Stephanie: That was a very good movie.

Lucy: Yeah. 

Stephanie: So there are two different sizing varieties of Beagles: one that is under thirteen inches, and one that is between thirteen and fifteen inches.

Carolyn: In terms of length?

Stephanie: Height! Thirteen inches tall.

Lucy: I’m guessing it doesn’t matter what size you have for hunting? Or does it? 

Stephanie: I don’t think so. 

Carolyn: The bigger the better, maybe. 

Amy: Great question. 

Stephanie: But if they’re smaller, they can fit through all the small spaces that the animal they are pursuing may go. 

Carolyn: Oh, true. 

Amy: True. 

Lucy: If anybody is a hunting expert, let us know, if you have beagles. [Laughter]

Stephanie: And is it common to just like have one beagle or is a pack common? Like when those… when they went hunting in old times, was it like, ‘everybody bring your own beagle,’ and that’s how they get the pack? 

Lucy: Yeah, hope for best that the pack works? [Laughter]

Amy: I don’t know. 

Stephanie: BYOB, bring your own beagle? 

Lucy: Yeah, or does someone have 15 beagles that are trained in a pack? That is a good question. If anybody has a hunting pack of beagles, let us know. 

Amy: ‘Cause you do see… You see pictures of just one or two beagles with a hunter. So they do probably hunt solo too. I don’t know. 

Lucy: I do like the idea of everybody going, ‘Okay, we’re having a hunt on Sunday. The only thing you need to do is bring your beagle. That’s the only payment.’ It’s like going into a poker match. Just bring a beagle. 

Carolyn: But they’re typically like– 

Stephanie: Bagel party! [Laughter]

Lucy: [Laughing] Imagine seeing that in the streets of your local town: Bagel party! And then people are so confused. And it’s just a whole heap of beagles, but everybody brings a bagel. [Laughter] If we ever do a live event, we’re calling it the bagel party. 

Amy: Yes! [Gasp] Can that be our exclusive Patreon group? Can we call it “The Bagel Party?” 

Carolyn: Ooh. 

Lucy: Yes. We’ve got to. It’s set in stone now. 

Stephanie: I’m…not objecting to that. 

Carolyn: And the basic tier can be the chocolate candy bar. 

Lucy: Yeah. 

Amy: Oh, boy.

Lucy: Everything’s now food-related, just to confuse everybody in our audience. 

Carolyn: No, because our audience is gonna have been listening from the beginning and they will know. 

Lucy: True that. 

Amy: Carolyn, as you’re thinking of possible logos, think about how you can incorporate all of the food. 

Carolyn: Oh, I will. Believe me, I will. 

Amy: I’m expecting a giant bagel with a pretzel on the side, and then a candy bar…

Carolyn: If you think that there will not be a food-related graphic to go with every episode for our social media, you are sadly mistaken. 

Amy: Perfect.

Lucy: We need to have a segment now called “The Food Zone”– 

Stephanie: “Bagel Connection.” 

Lucy: –I don’t know, “Snack Zone” or something like that. 

Amy: What are you eating today? [Laughter]

Lucy: Okay, where were we? 

Stephanie: They are very goal-oriented and their possible colorings are lemon, red and white, and tricolor. I’m curious if lemon is just like a yellow lab? 

Lucy: Yeah, is lemon bright, bright yellow, or is it like.. I don’t know. 

Stephanie: I think it’s more subdued. 

Amy: So it’s more of like a blonde color. 

Lucy: Yeah, but imagine a beagle being the same color as a lemon. 

Stephanie: Lemon bagels. 

Lucy: That would stand out everywhere. I don’t think it would be a hunting dog. 

Carolyn: Aren’t most animals colorblind anyway? 

Stephanie: Dogs can see limited color. 

Lucy: Oh, that’s a cutie. 

Amy: Yes. So the lemon is just more of like a buff, blonde kind of color. 

Stephanie: Aww, look at the little toasted marshmallow! 

Amy: Whereas the usual beagle is darker red…

Stephanie: It’s more of the tri-color, right? 

Amy: Yeah, the most common you see is the tri-color.

Carolyn: I was gonna say, that’s what I always think of. 

Amy: The black at his back. 

Lucy: I was kind of hoping when I looked up “lemon beagle” that there would be a beagle dressed as a lemon. [Laughter]

Carolyn: Okay, I have to start taking notes, people! [Laughter]

Stephanie: That’s what recordings are for. 

Carolyn: So much art!

Stephanie: Oh my goodness, that is the cutest little toasted marshmallow, that lemon. 

Carolyn: He’s cute. 

Amy: I want him! 

Amy: So, there are a lot of legends and superstitions that have to do with beagles, particularly because of their connection to hunting throughout history. It’s actually said to be good luck and an omen of a successful hunt for a hunter to see a beagle prior to heading out. There are also some beliefs that beagles can ward off evil spirits or intruders. 

Lucy: Ooh, that’s interesting because isn’t a Dementor technically an evil spirit? So, that’s the whole warding. 

Amy: Very true. 

Stephanie: …And could be an intruder. Which also makes sense because they often represent exploration, curiosity, friendship, focus, nature and opportunity.

Amy: They’re just good little protectors. And they look adorable doing it. 

Lucy: I wonder if your Patronus grows with you. Wouldn’t it be cool if the first time you cast your Patronus it starts like a little puppy, and then it grows with you? 

Amy: Aww, yeah. 

Stephanie: Oh my goodness, that would be adorable. 

Lucy: Cause you wouldn’t want a little beagle. 

Carolyn: Wait a minute. As much as I do love that, it is not common for kids to be able to cast Patronuses, though. 

Amy: True.

Carolyn: Like, they point out how advanced it is for Harry to even be attempting it. 

Stephanie: But still, it’s his first time, so he’s still a baby at it. It’s the comparison to like, he may be a level-five wizard, but he’s only a level-one Patronus caster. 

Carolyn: Okay. 

Stephanie: Freaking video games semantics in this.

Lucy: I did have this interesting theory, when I was reading some…I don’t know, I don’t remember what I was doing – but I was just like, imagine if your Patronus could start to form as an actual animal? The more you cast it, the more power you put into it, it the more lifelike it could become? 

Stephanie: That’d be cool. 

Amy: Where it’s more solid.

Lucy: Now I just want to have magic just to test that theory. Yeah, because when you first cast it, you’re most likely to only cast mist, and then over time it starts to form an animal. I wonder if the more times you cast it, the more power you put into it, starts to actually become a more solid object. 

Carolyn: So more realistic and lifelike in a lot of ways.

Stephanie: The more happy you put in, the more happy you put out.

Carolyn: Yeah, but then, what about people like… To go to Umbridge for example? She’s not really a “happy person” unless you count when she’s having her…

Lucy: She has her own form of happiness.

Stephanie: Torture makes her happy.

Carolyn: Yeah, I guess…

Stephanie: Just because it’s not my happy doesn’t mean it’s not someone’s happy. 

Carolyn: [Sigh] That’s true. It would also show the skill of the wizard too, pretty visually. 

Lucy: Yeah. Ugh, now I just want magic just to test this theory. [Laughter]

Carolyn: I wonder if you could still…Dumbledore develops the way to kind of send messages with your Patronus, right? Isn’t that a thing in canon? 

Amy: I think so. 

Stephanie: Yeah, but only the order members can do that. I don’t think it’s a widespread thing. 

Carolyn: Right, but in theory it could be. It could be a way to send messages, if more people learned it. 

Lucy: Yeah. 

Carolyn: But the question then becomes, a wizard who can only do a wisp, would they be able to…one, protect themselves enough, and two, if they needed to send a message, does that wisp go– you know, if it’s not an animal, does it not go anywhere? [Laughter] 

Amy: It can only wisp-er? 

Lucy: It can only wisp-er! [Laughter]

Amy: Like the little wisps! Get it? [Laughter]

Stephanie: But then again, if you think about the members of the order, they’re super powerful to be able to pull off this spell in general, let alone being able to send a message through the spell. 

Carolyn: Right.

Stephanie: I don’t think it would be something that would be used as commonly. 

Carolyn: I guess what I’m thinking is, would it be something that you could maybe make it part of core curriculum then, kind of thing? Not only does this protect you, but oh, by the way, you can send messages! This is a useful thing for all wizards to learn, regardless of how difficult it is. 

Stephanie: It does seem like a gap in magical education, but then again, we know there are lots of those. 

Lucy: There’s a gap in magical education that you can go straight from high school into the Ministry of Magic. Where’s your higher education? 

Carolyn: Well, yeah, that does kill me a little bit. 

Amy: Where’s your life experience? Let’s be real. 

Carolyn: You know, Quirrell’s a good case for not getting life experience though, if you think about it, though.

Amy: True. 

Lucy: Lockhart. 

Carolyn: Lockhart also, yeah. 

Lucy: Who would trust a nineteen-year-old to be the undersecretary, or whatever – Percy, in his job title? I wouldn’t trust that. That’s a pretty high position, and you get it straight out of high school?

Stephanie: I thought it was a made-up position to make Percy feel more important and to keep an eye on things. 

Amy: A high possibility. 

Carolyn: I always thought of it as made up because they were using him to pass messages. He was just some grunt in the office to begin with, but they used his ambition against him. 

Lucy: True, yeah.

Amy: Poor Percy. 

Lucy: Poor Percy. 

Amy: Oh, alright. 

Stephanie: Who’s Patronus is it anyway? 

[Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out on Whose Patronus is it anyway?] 

Amy: Yeah! Okay, so I have an idea for this one. If we’re thinking about Beagles and all the things we just talked about, Katie Bell. My reasoning here is, she’s pretty social. We know she’s good friends with Angelina and Alicia and she gets along with the whole Quidditch team. She’s also friends with Leanne, so she’s got a pretty good social circle around her. 

Carolyn: Who’s Leanne? Sorry. [Laughter]

Lucy: We don’t know a Leanne! 

Amy: The one she was with when she got cursed! 

Carolyn: Oh, the one who’s with her! Okay!

Amy: Yeah, yeah, yeah! We don’t know Leanne’s last name, who knows. But we know…

Carolyn: I didn’t even remember! All I remember is unnamed girl. 

Amy: They’re pretty tight. 

Carolyn: Apparently they’re tight. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Honestly, I probably just assumed it was Angelina or Alicia. with her. 

Amy: True. 

Carolyn: No, they’re both graduated. They’re ahead of her. Isn’t Katie Bell the only one left? 

Amy: Yes. 

Stephanie: Oh, [censored].

Amy: But she’s also pretty goal-oriented, because, you know, most people who play sports are. They’ve got some sort of goal in mind: winning, getting better, improving their skills. And then there’s the “hunts in packs” thing, where if you think about it, there’s three chasers that work together on a Quidditch team. They’re like a pack, and they work together towards the end goal. That’s my reasoning; I think that Katie Bell’s Patronus should be a Beagle. 

Lucy: I like that. 

Carolyn: Those are solid reasons. 

Stephanie: That actually makes a lot of sense. I don’t think I would have thought of her initially, but…yeah. 

Carolyn: I took a darker turn on that one – it’s probably the Slytherin in me – but it’s for similar reasons, sort of. I thought Fenrir Greyback, if he could cast one, would– 

Lucy: Please explain! I’m very curious on this one. 

Carolyn: Alright, so my logic is somewhat similar, although in her case it’s because they work together. It’s the hunting aspect as to why…Fenrir Greyback, as a werewolf, unfortunately hunts children, because he wants to make as many kids werewolves as possible. But that idea of him hunting, and that hunting nature of getting as many werewolves as possible so that everybody can feel, I don’t know, the pain or ostracizing nature of being “the other.” I find it super creepy, but even in the seventh book, when we really kind of see the character, because he’s just kind of off to the side and mentioned beforehand, but when he’s with the Snatcher– is it– they’re Snatchers, right? That’s the right word? 

Lucy: Yeah. 

Carolyn: He was in that group of the Snatchers that got Harry and Hermione and Ron, and took them to Malfoy’s. Even then, he’s with a group. He’s not by himself. The other two, as far as I know, are not werewolves…

Lucy: And I also feel like he’s trying to make his own community and pack? Because… In the Wizarding World, werewolves are just by themselves basically, they don’t have any community, just because of what the ministry’s done. So… 

Stephanie: Right. 

Amy: True. 

Lucy: He’s trying to make that… 

Amy: Yeah, when you initially said that I was thinking, well… How does that fit with being a good companion, and friendship? But I guess… I mean, who are we to say that he doesn’t actually have friendships with these people? Maybe Fenrir and the Snatchers are best buddies and they get along great. Who knows? 

Lucy: Yeah, in his own weird, creepy way, I reckon he could be a beagle. 

Amy: [Laughter] I don’t think he’s very lovable, but you know. I guess… Depends on who you are…

Stephanie: I know, I’m focused on “lovable, happy, and companionable,” and I do not think those are three adjectives…

Lucy: But we don’t know what he’s like with these people he turns. He could be all those things, and on the outside we just see this evil person, but when he’s behind closed doors, he’s like, ‘You’re my family!’

Stephanie: Didn’t he turn Lupin?

Lucy: Did he? Yeah, I think he turned Lupin. Yeah.

Stephanie: Wasn’t he a [censored] to Lupin?

Lucy: Yeah, but Lupin had his father…

Stephanie: Oh, okay. 

Lucy: Yeah. I don’t know, but I feel like Lupin went very much against him as well, where it makes you wonder, if Lupin didn’t have the support and Hogwarts as a child, would he be more like, ‘Fenrir’s the only person who understands me?’ 

Amy: Maybe.

Stephanie: Well, and Lupin–

Carolyn: Yeah, because he also had the support of the school. Like, Dumbledore was the reason he got to go to school like a normal…

Lucy: Yeah, ’cause other than Lupin, there’s no other person in canon that we know of. 

Carolyn: And he had to hide it.

Lucy: So it makes you wonder after the war… Yeah, he had to hide it as well. I do hope that after the war, all those kids that were turned into werewolves got to go to Hogwarts. 

Amy: Yeah, I would hope so. 

Lucy: If not, why were you fighting the war? [Laughter]

Amy: Well, two very different choices. 

Carolyn: Yes. Very different swings. Yes. But. 

Stephanie: Literal polar opposites. 

Carolyn: The logic was there, I swear, people. 

Stephanie: I get the logic. I do get it a little bit. 

Carolyn: I mean, I don’t like the idea of it. I don’t like the idea of Fenrir Greyback, but, you know. 

Lucy: But I do actually like the idea of him fighting a Dementor in the Battle of Hogwarts. “Expecto Patronum!” Beagle. Would everybody just go, “What?”

Stephanie: I was just thinking the same thing. This big scary a-[censored] man–

Lucy: And then he just has a little beagle!

Stephanie: –with a little toasted marshmallow of a dog. 

Carolyn: Yeah. 

Lucy: But then I wonder, like, would his Patronus actually be a werewolf? 

Carolyn: Lupin’s got one, we don’t know what his is, do we? 

Lucy: Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. It’s a wolf. So everybody stay tuned for the wolf episode where we can dive deeper into Fenrir’s Patronus. Is it a beagle, or is it a wolf?  [Laughter]

Stephanie: I feel like they have two very different body types. You should be able to tell the difference between a beagle and a wolf. 

Carolyn: I do like the idea of the hunting dog, though. 

Amy: Yeah. 

Carolyn: And how that would…it doesn’t have to be a wolf, even for Lupin. Even though we know it is, but you could make a case for him having a different…

Lucy: So, is that everything on the bagel episode that we’re covering today? 

Stephanie: I do believe that wraps up bagels. 

Amy: It sure is. 

Lucy: So next week, we will be doing the otter episode, and that’s going to be very cool, to talk about Hermione’s Patronus. 

Carolyn: Getting into the golden trio. 

Lucy: Woo! So before then, if you want to follow us on social media, we’re on every single platform. On TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook, you can find us at expecto-podtronum, and on Twitter you can find us at expecto-pod. We also have Patreon, which we love because it allows us to talk to you guys a lot more and have a lot more of a communication… That did not make sense, but we’re gonna go with it. [Laughter]

Carolyn: We had bagels on this episode. Nothing makes sense. [Laughter]

Lucy: That’s so true. [Laughter] So if you’d love to support us, and we’ll be very grateful if you did, you can find us on Patreon at Expecto Podtronum. And of course we have a Gmail if you want to do it that way. That’s just expectopodtronum@gmail.com. Send us any of your questions, fan theories, folklore theories, just send us anything, because we’d love to talk about it, either in our Patreon or on future episodes. So that’s it from us. I’m Lucy, and I’m just going to say, goodbye! 

Amy: See you later!

Carolyn: See you soon! 

Stephanie: Remember, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the dementors away.

“Food Show” by Music_For_Videos, Anastasia Kir — “Movie Score A” by DHy-Nez, Denita Smith — “Excuse me Cat” by geoffharvey, Geoff Harvey — “The Classical” by Music_For_Videos, Anastasia Kir — “Uplifting Celebration” by makesoundmusic, Mike Kripak — “Mysterious Music: Light Mystical Background Music for Short Video/Vlog” by White Records, Maksym Dudchyk — “Telling the Story” by goeffharvey, Geoff Harvey