Stephanie: Hello, and welcome to episode two of Expecto Podtronum, a podcast dedicated to all things Patronuses. I’m your host, Stephanie. 

Amy: I’m Amy. 

Lucy: I’m Lucy. 

Carolyn: And I’m Carolyn. And today we’re going to be discussing the snowy owl. 

Stephanie: So the snowy owl is native to the Arctic regions of North America and the Palearctic. They actually make their homes on the ground in the tundra. They burrow. 

Carolyn: Hmm. I would not have guessed. 

Lucy: See, that is very interesting. I did not know that. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Yeah, I was really surprised, too.

Amy: I did not know that either, but I guess it makes sense; if you match the snow, why not burrow in the snow? 

Carolyn: Yeah, and not as many trees probably [Yeah] I suppose that’s debatable. North America–

Stephanie: Well, it’s the Arctic of North America. So it’s up up up up. Above it, at least– [way up, way up, up up.] 

And I really like this one: usually, snowy owls mate for life. So once they find their partner, they are monogamous animals. Hmm. 

Lucy: Aww, can you imagine Hedwig with a partner for life? 

Carolyn: I can’t imagine Hedwig with a partner–

Lucy: If she didn’t die. [Laughter]

Stephanie: Can you imagine Hedwig and Pigwidgeon together as partners? [Laughter]

Amy: Can you imagine Hedwig putting up with anybody? [I mean–] She’s so sassy.

Carolyn: Yeah, she got, she would get bitter at Harry every time he didn’t give her enough attention, so eh. [Laughter] I think she already had her mate for life. Pigwidgeon just pissed her off. [Laughter]

Stephanie: While most of the world’s owls are active at night, these ones are the most active during the day. 

Lucy: Okay, that makes a lot of sense now with the owls in the universe. Because that is a very confusing thing. It’s like, why are these owls out during the day? [Right.] 

Carolyn: It makes Hedwig make a lot more sense too. [Yeah. Definitely Hedwig.] 

Lucy: Did they just, then, are magical owls different than regular owls, if they’re…if they go during the day? Or is that what we just think? Or do people send their letters, give them their letters during the day but they don’t go until nighttime? It was just,when Harry defeated Voldemort was just a phenomenon… 

Stephanie: I think… I think so. 

Carolyn: Or are all owls magical? [Laughter]

Stephanie: I mean, could be. [Ooh.] But think about when they got their mail at Hogwarts. It was always usually in the morning at breakfast, [yeah] which means the owls could have been flying all night to get there to deliver the mail in time.

Lucy: Can you just imagine them all just sitting just on the roof of the Great Hall, just with their letters, going, when is it? When is it? 

Carolyn: Has breakfast started? Has breakfast started, is it time? 

Stephanie: A special owl hatch? [Laughter] 

Lucy: Because it’s very interesting that they all come in at the same time. It’s like, ‘And open the gates to let them in.’

Stephanie: Owl hatch. 

Amy: They’re very punctual owls. 

Lucy: Yeah. It’s like, ‘Oh wait, we’re missing Barry. We can’t go.’

Stephanie: I’m also now picturing Filch on the roof of the castle, opening a door. [Laughter]

Carolyn: And now you go in. 

Lucy: It’s bursting, it’s like, ‘Come on!’ Oh… [Laughter] 

Amy: I’m picturing Filch having a fit because of all the owl droppings on the roof. [Mmmm… Yes!] 

Carolyn: I feel like because it’s a school there was more– when you think about it, in the books, the owls would just show up when they showed up, if they’re out of school. [Yeah.] I feel like it was a school thing. And that for some reason… All the owls just understood, ‘This was the time I can deliver.’ [Hmm.]

Lucy: That would actually make a lot of sense, because you wouldn’t want owls turning up in the middle of lessons, and delivering all day. So… [Right.] It must be, yeah, some… [Some sort of magic….] Owls are just very intelligent. [Yeah.] 

Carolyn: Well, I thought according to a cursed child they’re fam- or is it that they’re famously untrainable? Because they tried to have one in the Cursed Child show and it didn’t work. [Laughter]

Stephanie: I feel like they have to be somewhat trainable, because there’s all those birding shows out in…when I went to Arizona with my family, they trained owls to fly down and land on the arm of someone, so they are somewhat trainable. [Hmm, yeah.] 

Lucy: Hmm. And they did it for the films as well. 

Carolyn: Maybe it’s just…Broadway fail. [Laughter]

Amy: That owl did not want to be an actor. 

Lucy: I don’t know how I feel about a live owl flying over me while I’m sitting in the theater. [Yeah…] The room for error in a dropping is just… That’s gonna ruin your whole experience. 

Carolyn: I get nervous just when I see a ton of pigeons. [Laughter] Like, ‘Oh crap, I’m gonna be the one that gets the pigeon poop on me!’ [Laughter]

Stephanie: Pigeons are evil. 

Amy: Well, tell us more about these snowy owls, Stephanie. 

Stephanie: So males turn pure white as they get older, and females almost always have brown spots on them. [Hmm.]

Carolyn: That kind of tracks with birds, right? Usually between male and female, they don’t look the same, and the men are the more– male are the more colorful. Or in this case, the less colorful. [Laughter]

Lucy: Oh, that is so cool. I had to look up a picture of Hedwig because I was like– 

Stephanie: ‘Cause she’s accurate, right? 

Lucy: Did they take that into consideration in the filming? And Hedwig has the brown spots! It’s the attention to detail. [Laughter]

Carolyn: Yeah, but in the book they describe her as “snowy white.”

Lucy: Because for anybody else… Yeah, but she’s definitely… She’s female. [Oh, she is. Yes, yeah.]

Stephanie: It could also be an age thing [That’s how I’ve always pictured–yeah.] Where in the books, when Harry’s first describing her, she is “snowy white” because she’s younger, and then as she ages with Harry, those brown spots start to develop more. 

Amy: True. And snowy white in comparison to a barn owl that’s…brown. [Laughter]

Lucy: And I feel like that sort of detail could have easily been missed in the filming. Like, ‘Oh, we’ll just get any snowy owl.’

Stephanie: Sure missed a lot of other details. [Laughter]

Lucy: Male or female, it doesn’t matter. No one will notice. [Laughter]

Carolyn: Actually, there are a fair amount of people who wouldn’t have noticed though. 

Amy: Yeah, very true. 

Lucy: Yeah.

Stephanie: [Quietly] And then there are the weirdos like us that would have. [Laughter]

Carolyn: Hence why we’re making this podcast. [Laughter]

Carolyn: Ooh, I’m looking up pictures of them. 

Stephanie: So they eat– snowy owls? 

Carolyn: Yeah. Male versus female.

Stephanie: [Softly] They’re so pretty. 

Carolyn: They are.

Stephanie: So these owls traditionally eat lemmings or other small rodents? I had to Google what a lemming was, and I don’t remember.

Carolyn: I… I have to Google one now, because… 

Lucy: Do you want to describe… 

Amy: I don’t think I’m picturing… [Laughter]

Lucy: Yeah, same! Do you want to describe to the audience what a lemon – a lemming – is?

Stephanie: [Whispering] I’m googling too.

Lucy: I can quickly…

Carolyn: Oh my god, that is not what I expected it to look like. 

Stephanie: Lucy, tell me what a lemming is. 

Lucy: No. 

Amy: They’re cute!

Carolyn: It kinda looks like– They’re really cute! They kind of look like a…type of guinea pig. 

Amy: They do. 

Carolyn: But that is not what I expected. I’m picturing– I don’t know why. Probably because the name is so close to that character from Ice Age, but that weird sloth-type guy. Isn’t his name Lenny? 

Amy: Oh. Sid? 

Carolyn: Sid! It’s not even– Sid! It’s not even the right name. Why am I picturing Sid? It’s not the right species! [Laughter] These are super cute.

Amy: Sid, lemming…you know, they sound exactly the same. 

Carolyn: They sound nothing alike, I’m just a putz. [Laughter]

Lucy: So, if anybody wants a little…audio description – if not just look them up – they’re about four to seven inches or ten to eighteen centimeters long, they have a short tail, and…this is what Google says: “The body is chunky.” [Laughter]

Carolyn: I mean, seriously, I’m looking at pictures on, on… Duck Duck Go, and they kind of look like a cute version of a hamster–no, guinea pig. More like a guinea pig. [Yeah.] But I think cuter, way cuter. 

Amy: It’s almost like a miniature groundhog.

Lucy: Yeah, and sort of similar to an otter, I reckon, as well, in some way?

Amy: Mmm. Or like a…beaver. It’s got those beaver teeth? 

Lucy: Mmm. That’s it, yeah. 

Stephanie: And if you want to see a picture–

Carolyn: Check out our website.

Stephanie: –head over to the blog post, and you can see it there.

Amy: They’re very cute. 

Lucy: We should just do a whole episode on the lemming now. 

Stephanie: Oh my gosh, we have a mouse–

Lucy: Imagine having one of those as your patronus!

Carolyn: This is gonna just become an animal podcast, I think, in the long run. 

Amy: National Geographic over here. 

Carolyn: We’re gonna get through all of the Patronuses and then we’re just gonna be like, ‘Everything else!’ 

Stephanie: We do have a field mouse episode, so we can do, “Why not a lemming?” [Very true.]

Lucy: Ooh, Yeah, 

Amy: Aren’t lemmings the ones that all run off the cliff together? Wasn’t there some weird video of that? 

Stephanie: [Whispering] What?

Lucy: That’s literally what I’m just reading! There’s the myth. There’s the suicide myth that they all go off together. [Yeah!] And it’s like, is that true? That’s either–

Carolyn: Oh, it’s one of the search things. Lemmings jumping off cliffs. Wait. 

Amy: Oh no, now we’re down the rabbit hole. 

Stephanie: We’re on a tangent. 

Carolyn: All right, no. Okay, we’ve looked at them. They’re very cute. Guinea pigs, guinea pigs, yes. 

Amy: Back to snowy owls. [Laughter]

Stephanie: So traditionally, they’re thought to possess strong magic and having insight into the future, which I think is really fitting for the magical community. 

Carolyn: That would make picking a snowy owl as your owl post, a really smart move. 

Stephanie: Really fitting. [Yeah.]

Carolyn: Although Harry’s given his, so he doesn’t even get to claim the genius on this. That was all Hagrid. 

Amy: Hagrid is a genius. 

Lucy: Look, but I could see someone like Trelawney having a snowy owl. [Yeah.] Just sitting there in the corner of the classroom. [Mmhmm.] Judging everybody. 

Amy: Just hanging out and staring into crystal balls. 

Carolyn: There is an argument for that, for sure. 

Stephanie: And then like most owls, they represent wisdom, but the white of the bird…could also symbolize a transition is coming. 

Amy: Which is very interesting when you think about the series and when Hedwig dies and how we were all like, ‘Oh, that symbolizes his childhood is over…’ Transition. 

Carolyn: Well, even when he gets the owl–he gets the owl, he gets Hedwig as he’s entering the wizarding world. So it’s also a transition. Right? [Yeah. Interesting.]

Stephanie: So Amy, do you wanna tell us a little bit more about owls in folklore? These snowy owls? 

Amy: Oh, I sure do, Steph. [Laughter] As the resident legend and folklore nerd here’s some stuff I could find on the snowy owl. 

Different cultures have different folklore and meanings associated with owls in general. Some of them see them as omens of death, while others see them as messengers or protectors. But snowy owls, in particular, are sometimes seen to represent peace, purity, honesty, and goodness. You know, that should sound pretty familiar from other pure white animals and how they’re portrayed throughout history and legends and folklore. If you think about unicorns and things like that. 

Seeing a snowy owl outside your house is said to mean a deceased loved one is trying to contact you. [Aww.] …Which, I believe that’s very similar to white doves, if I’m not mistaken. I feel like I’ve heard that somewhere. 

Stephanie: I have not heard that. 

Amy: Celtic culture sees–

Lucy: Could that– Sorry. Could that make sense, though, if Harry has the snowy owl, that his parents are always with him and trying to contact him? 

Stephanie: [Gasp] Watching over him. [Yeah.]

Amy: Aww! I like that. I totally buy into that. 

Lucy: And considering he didn’t choose it, it’s given. It’s like, ‘Here’s your protector.’ Yeah. 

Amy: Aw, that’s cute. I like that.

Stephanie: I accept. 

Amy: It is canon. 

Stephanie: Confirmed. 

Amy: So Celtic culture sees owls as connected to femininity and witchcraft, which makes sense with how we see owls in the wizarding world, associated with witchcraft and wizardry. 

Snowy owls are actually connected to Beira, a hag or witch character from Celtic mythology. Beira is also called “The Queen of Winter” and is said to be responsible for the cold, snow, and shaping mountains. So according to the legend, she sometimes appears as a snowy white owl. 

Carolyn: That’s cool. 

Stephanie: That’s really cool. 

Amy: And then this next bit, I actually found two different folktales about the snowy owl and the raven, from the Inuit people of Alaska, and it’s kind of funny because it’s two stories but with sort of the same result at the end, which I thought was kind of fun. So the first version is, the snowy owl makes the raven a dress of white, but the raven is too excited to stand still while the owl’s trying to fit the dress to it, and so the owl actually gets frustrated and throws lamp oil on the raven who…then has worn the black-stained dress ever since. And that’s supposed to be an explanation for why owls and ravens don’t get along. That’s kind of the start of their beef, I guess. 

Stephanie: I didn’t know they have beef. 

Lucy: Ravens don’t get along with a lot of animals and folk tales, I’ve come to realize. 

Amy: This is true. Ravens are kind of a pain in the butt. Let’s be real. [Yeah.]

But then there’s another version of this story and I think I actually like this one the best. So both the owl and the raven are solid white to begin with, and they decide to adorn each other. So the owl was really patient and sat through the raven painting speckles on his feathers – or her feathers, since we now know that it’s the female snowy owls that have the speckles – but the owl gave raven a pair of boots to show his appreciation over how he was adorned and how beautiful he looked. And then he began to paint the raven. But once again, raven being difficult, he was too enthralled with his new boots to stand still for the owl to actually do a good job with the painting. So he ended up solid black instead of speckled. And raven was really upset about this, even though it was his own fault…And the two have been enemies ever since. 

Carolyn: I feel like ravens are really just… not good at sitting still. 

Amy: No! Clearly not! 

Carolyn: Sounds like they’re a metaphor for children! [Laughter]

Amy: But I thought those were some fun folktales. 

Stephanie: They definitely are, and now I’ve learned that owls and ravens…are not friends. [Laughter] Which I never would have guessed. 

Carolyn: Alright, now we’re on to, “Whose Patronus is it anyway? “

[Which character could fit this Patronus? Find out on…Whose Patronus is it anyway?]

Carolyn: …where we kind of dive into who we think the snowy owl would be, or who would be a Patronus for. Alright. 

My theory, at least to start with, is that it would be Fleur’s Patronus. [Ooh. Okay…] And the theory I’m working with, I don’t have enough… I don’t have a lot of notes in here, but. Basically, my thought process was, Fleur gets kind of an image as a real… as very flighty, as not very serious. And I don’t know if it’s– they make fun of her. They call her Flem. They, you know, I feel like they think she’s not intelligent. Take your pick. She’s smarter and more capable of a witch than anybody gives her credit for, so that would be my first argument towards this. 

And then…the other, kind of bigger one is that everybody seems to think that she’s only with Bill for his looks? And so, as soon as he gets scarred, she’s just going to run off and find someone more…particularly, Molly seemed to think that, because I remember the hospital scene in the book where she’s like, ‘Well, obviously you won’t want to still marry him now that he’s been attacked by a werewolf!’ And she just kind of looks at him and goes, ‘No, I’m pretty enough for both of us!’ And she stays with him. But that idea of mating for life was the other thought that I kind of had for why it would be her. [Ah.] 

Stephanie: Yeah, and that really makes sense. 

Carolyn: And an example of, ‘I’ve already chosen my person, I don’t care what happens.’ So. Those are my thought processes. 

Lucy: I like that. And also isn’t the theory that it’s harder for Veelas to fall in love, because everybody loves them already, so to find someone who’s generally pure loving them just for who they are, not their looks, is a lot harder for them? 

Amy: Yeah. Very true. 

Carolyn: I think that’s, yeah. Isn’t that in– that might be in one of the little extension books, the Hogwarts Library ones. [Mmhmm.]

Amy: Well, I think too, owls and snowy owls especially always look so majestic. They’ve got this poise about them that I feel matches Fleur’s persona as well, in how she carries herself. 

Carolyn: Well, I think there’s another one. But yeah, so that was kind of my thought process was that she’s kind of underestimated, but for her to be picked as a Triwizard. It says a lot about her intelligence.

Stephanie: Which also makes sense–

Lucy: Yeah, I like that one. 

Stephanie: –with them being linked to strong magics, like you were saying. [Mmhmm. Mmhmm.]

Carolyn: So those were my theories as to whose Patronus it would be. 

Lucy: I like it. I have another theory. Mine is Harry Potter. We know Harry’s Patronus is a stag like his dad, but what happens if his parents didn’t die? Would his Patronus be different? And would it be a snowy owl, considering how closely bonded they are? But now thinking about it, would he have still gotten the snowy owl if his parents were alive? 

Amy: Right, because Hagrid wouldn’t have taken him shopping, his parents would have. Would they have chosen Hedwig? [Yeah.]

Stephanie: Or would he have already gotten an owl?

Carolyn: Or would he already have an owl? [Right. Yeah.]

Lucy: The other options are a cat or a toad, so I reckon an owl would have been pretty much up there. [Laughter]

Amy: Oh yeah, true. He seems like an owl kind of guy, yeah. 

Carolyn: Or would he have picked that? I mean, maybe it would have been more likely that he would have gone with them to pick out his animal and probably picked his own owl, and would he have picked the snowy owl? [Mmhmm. Hmm, yeah.]

Lucy: That’s an interesting one. 

Carolyn: But that all doesn’t- But it doesn’t necessarily- I mean, he still could end up with a snowy owl as his patronus. [Mmhmm.] There’s an argument to be made for him ending up with an owl as his patronus, even if it’s a different breed. 

Lucy: Yeah, I had this interesting conversation with my sister last night about how some of these animals are also very closely bonded with their human, like Hedwig and Harry are very closely bonded. Is that sort of also a reflection of your Patronus? [Hmm.] 

Amy: I mean, the connection between animals and Patronuses, and animals and Animagi is really interesting, too. Do they always take the same form? If someone’s an Animagus, is their Patronus always the same form as their Animagus form is? 

Stephanie: Can we just imagine for a minute, Rita being protected by a ladybug? [Laughter]

Lucy: I love that! [Laughter]

Amy: That would serve her right. Karma! [Laughter]

Lucy: But I’m looking into our list of characters and known Patronuses, and Albus Dumbledore’s Patronus is a phoenix and his familiar – or very close animal companion – is a phoenix. 

Carolyn: But a Patronus can also change. Lily’s wasn’t… [Oh, yeah.] I don’t think Albus’s was always a phoenix. Did his change to adapt to the fact that he had Fawkes? [Ooh, yeah. I don’t know.] And if we take the full canon of the Wizarding World and what is, I think what we’re supposed to take from Fantastic Beasts Dumbledore also didn’t always have the Elder Wand, so…at some point he gets Fawkes…because he didn’t have that in those movies, he didn’t have Fawkes in those movies, and his Patronus could have changed to adapt to that. 

Lucy: I wonder with getting the power of the Elder Wand, that’s when it changed because then he got such big and sort of…interesting magic within that, that it brought about the Phoenix, which is also incredibly rare magic, and all that jazz. 

Amy: So, I think we need to do a whole episode on when and why Patronus forms change. [Laughter]

Stephanie: That actually is in the plan. [Yeah.] 

Amy: [Laughter] That was just a little teaser for that episode. We’re just getting started. [Laughter]

Lucy: Yeah. And we probably have been teasing a lot of stuff. You never know what we have planned. So is that everything on the Snowy Owl? Have we covered all bases? 

Amy: Yeah. 

Lucy: Our audience, what is your theory? Send us in your theories or anything that we’ve missed, if you have a local folklore about these animals, [yes] if there’s any interesting facts? 

Amy: If you want to tell us more about lemmings, you know? 

Lucy: Yes, we’d love to know. If we get a lot of comments on lemmings, we are making an episode on it.

Stephanie: [Singsong] Bonus episode for Patreon….[Yes.]

Lucy: And if you want to continue the conversation with us, you’ll send us any questions, fan theories, folk-lores, anything. We’ll love to chat with you. And you can find us on all social media platforms. Our TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook are expecto-podtronum. And you can find us on Twitter, or if you like to call it by its new name, X, at expecto-pod. 

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and we also have got a lot of cool things planned there, where we’re going to talk about your fan theories or anything you– anything you send us, we’re gonna have a lot of fun over there So if you want to support us, please head over to our Patreon. And if you just want to email us because you don’t feel like doing any social media, you can email us on at expectopodtronum@gmail.com

And also don’t forget to leave us a review. We just love you guys so much. So we’ll see you next time with episode three, The Beagle. So that’s goodbye from me. 

Amy: See ya. 

Carolyn: See you later. 

Stephanie: And remember guys, a piece of chocolate a day will keep the Dementors away.

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